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Girth_rulez t1_jedoy24 wrote

Reply to comment by Jebediah_Johnson in Nashville kids write notes to officers who ran into The Covenant School shooting by Due-Reading6335

On YouTube, Donut Operator explained it something like this. "An imperfect plan executed quickly is better than a perfect plan executed at some undetermined time in the future."

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Bagellord t1_jef1d3l wrote

Definitely. If those four had been killed or taken down by the shooter, that's still time for more backup to arrive, more people to get to safety, less ammo and will for the shooter.

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mgt-kuradal t1_jef6913 wrote

Not to mention the chances of the shooter successfully taking out all 4 officers is practically 0. That’s like Hollywood movie shit.

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Art-Zuron t1_jef7smj wrote

And even if they did, the cops were probably armored and would have only been injured, not killed.

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washington_jefferson t1_jefoczy wrote

Didn’t you see the video? The had on normal vests that they wear throughout their normal shift. Not exactly armor. I bet an expert special forces/Navy seal could have taken the shooter down with no firearm. He’d need some cover fire, though.

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Art-Zuron t1_jefteyl wrote

I don't know what the weapon was that the shooter had, but I believe even the standard vests can resist at least some small arms fire. Like a 38-45.

That is if they're the kind meant to be somewhat bulletproof

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CedarWolf t1_jefvnoi wrote

'Small arms fire' refers to most handguns, and one of the reasons armed officers wear them is not only because it helps protect them against incoming fire from an armed assailant, but it also gives them some minimum of protection from their own firearm in the event that someone knocks them over and takes it from them.

And they do resist hangun calibers. You'll probably break a rib or two and bruise a lung, and you'll be out of the fight, but you'll be alive instead of bleeding out on the sidewalk somewhere.

However, most body armor isn't rated for rifle calibers. A rifle round can punch right through Kevlar and can deform steel plates to the point where the steel itself can cause injury because it's pressing on the wound.

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Art-Zuron t1_jefw7vi wrote

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. I believe this shooter had a rifle, but I don't know what kind. A 22 LR is way different than like 308 for sure

In any case, these officers did really well. They should be commended for it! Just as Uvalde's should be criticized harshly.

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Jackal209 t1_jegq8xv wrote

Their primary weapon was the Keltec sub2k, a pistol caliber carbine that comes in either 9mm or .40 S&W

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Art-Zuron t1_jegqfcx wrote

Though it's pistol caliber, I suppose the gunpowder behind it is the important part.

If it's got more kick, that'll make a difference in how effective armor is

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Jackal209 t1_jeh06rl wrote

Ugh, I can't help it, I gotta get a bit technical *deep breath*

There are multiple factors that play a role, amount of gunpowder behind a round is one of them.

Others include barrel length, how fast or slow the powder burns, size of the round (mass, caliber, etc.), hardness of the round/penetrator, etc.

Soooo... our POS shooter was using a Keltec Sub2k which has a 16" barrel. Assuming they were using factory loaded 115 gr. 9mm ammo (the most commonly used 9mm ammo in the US), the muzzle velocity would have been around 1,295 fps. However, they're only gaining slightly less than 200 fps over shooting the same round from a full size handgun like the Glock 17 with a ~4.5" barrel has a muzzle velocity around 1,097 fps. Fast sure, but still slow compared to actual rifle rounds which often have muzzle velocities exceeding 2,000 fps, some exceeding 3,000 fps, and at least one exceeding 4,000 fps.

Without diving further down this rabbit hole, the short of it is that body armor rated to stop pistol calibers will still stop this round from a 16" barrel.

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RightofUp t1_jef6d9y wrote

Field Marshall Montgomery just gasped from the after-life.

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