BigbunnyATK t1_jdis10z wrote
Reply to comment by Giftwrapfromhell in Another attack on an American base in Syria Friday after US retaliatory airstrikes on Iranian-backed groups by notunek
Point is, the situation is more complicated than you make it out to be. There are rarely good and bad guys in war. Much of our involvement in the Middle East isn't necessarily bad, but some of it is. I haven't found more on Syria just yet, but here's a somewhat detailed post on being in the Middle East in general:https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/qtvqaf/why_did_the_us_originally_go_to_the_middle_east/
"America bad" isn't an opinion. You have to say "America bad because..." and follow the ellipses with something that I can read and say, "Woah, America bad." See, America bad is a conclusion not a reason. If you really want to talk geopolitics you have to use the overall picture to convince people.
Edit: Some source on recent Syria related news. Seems the USA is in some of these countries to keep Russia from gaining massive control over the oil supply of the world. Russia messed with many of the same countries that the USA messes with. Whether you think the USA should intervene or not is up to you. From a geopolitics standpoint I say it should. If it didn't, Russia would go uncontested and control massive swaths of the oil supply. I wouldn't say it's moral to be in other countries killing people for resource control, but I'd also say that allowing a country with a tyrannical leader like Putin to go uncontested isn't moral either.
https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/gdwbj3/what_is_us_involvement_like_in_syria_as_of_2020/
Betterchicken9 t1_jdjtrzu wrote
This is like saying because one side is raping and pillaging the world we can do so also lol. Even then you paint a really awful and disingenuous picture. We are involved in far more global conflicts than any other country in the world by far. This country only engages in conflicts for its own self interest and they make that very clear.
BigbunnyATK t1_jdkj96n wrote
I don't understand what you've brought to the table. I link the USA's reasons for going to a war, or at least some small snippet of it, and you post "wrong and fake." As I understand it, our war in Afghanistan was to make an ally. Afghanistan had already had horrible leadership issues because Russia helped install units that would be pro Russia. We came in later to both clear the Russian influence and to help Afghanistan. We spent billions to help them build schools and infrastructure and to give them a voted democracy. It failed. But how can you sit from your computer seat and say what soldier's gave their lives for was wrong? War is complicated but don't pretend the USA as a monolith is some pure evil organization. We've had our hands in stopping several genocides. You know, Saddam Hussein against the Kurds. Japan against South East Asia (especially China). It's not like we're a country full of fantasy heroes who do no wrong, but if you think the mindset of America is pure evil you haven't seen anything of this world. We are sending billions to Ukraine, too. Would you rather they get toppled and raped and murdered by Russia? And if China attacks Taiwan, we'll be there, too. You take a simple view of a complex topic, and worse you take a simple view of a complex topic which has taken lives. Come back with a formed opinion based on historical fact and knowledge, and we can speak.
Betterchicken9 t1_jdlbd4h wrote
Yes I can easily sit behind my computer screen and critique those amazing soldiers you’re describing bc they fucked up. 2 trillion dollars spent on that war just for the taliban to take it over in two weeks lol. We sent soldiers there and terrorized those poor people. We gave them a reason to hate us. Huge waste of tax payer money and human lives. we ended up legitimizing them bc of all the horrible things we ended up doing. Things like this type of shit where we killed a random person and 7 children. This type of junk constantly goes unpunished by our govt. how would this make you feel if this was your children who died and the person who authorized it went about unpunished?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike.html
This is just one of countless stupid senseless killings we do in these countries. An absolute disregard for human life.
This one is even better. I hope you watch this video and learn something from it.
Brother most of that money we gave them never even left Kabul.
US military industrial complex is the most evil thing I can possibly think of. We are a cancer to the rest of the world.
We could’ve cared less about saddam Husseins genocide on the Kurds. if we actually cared about the human beings living there we wouldn’t have illegally invaded them and killed 500k-2 million people.
We stop genocides when they’re convenient to us. We also support genocides when they’re convenient to us as well.
We also support ethnic cleansing and apartheid by giving Israel military aid.
War is not very complicated. War is evil. That’s not something very complex. A 5 year old could understand this.
My guy we are giving billions of aid to what was noted as the most corrupt nation in Europe. This kinda tells me everything about you. You fail to understand the huge fuck up we caused in Afghanistan and you are failing to see the huge fuck up we are causing in Ukraine. Billions of dollars worth of aid being given to Ukraine just for it to laundered out while refusing to negotiate a peace deal. It’s just laughable. You just want to keep feeding the war machine.
You’re making this weird bogeyman of Russians coming to rape and kill Ukrainians if we don’t throw money at them. You don’t understand that we can also just advocate for peace talks You just seem like a warmonger.
If China attacks Taiwan why should we have any say in the conflict? It’s literally non of our business. We could care less about Taiwan we just want them so we can put bases closer to China.
You are projecting in you’re last statement. You have been infected with our major propaganda system. You actually believe we are the hero’s in this world when we only get involved with global conflicts if we think we can make money off of it or if it benefits the military industrial complex.
There is nothing complex about not idolizing, worshipping or respecting the soldiers that illegally invaded Afghanistan or Iraq and left with possibly millions of afghans and Iraqis dead. I don’t know why this has to be explained to you.
BigbunnyATK t1_jdn6isr wrote
First, you not wanting to send money and weapons to Ukraine to fight against Russia and saying Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, already shows that you're some Russian incel lol. That's only a Russian talking point. Ukraine is fighting for their country, Russia is fighting to take it and losing horribly because Russia is led by pathetic, weak leaders. I would happily send more and more weapons to Ukraine until Russia is at its knees without Moldova nor Crimea.
Also, you've given a completely non-expansive view of what the Afghanistan war was about. You fail to include the view that, if we left all things alone, Russia would control most of the world's oil. To you that's just an acceptable outcome and we shouldn't stop it. Russia was already doing proxy wars in these countries, so the USA stepped in to stop Russia. "War is bad" isn't an answer. War is bad but happens for a reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War
Funniest among your claims, the US did invade Iraq with UN permission. So it was a legal war. It was later decided there hadn't been enough evidence, but later is too late. The justification for the war: we went on the assumption that they had WMD which Saddam loved to brag about. We went because he was casually using chemical weapons on villagers, genociding the Kurds. And we went because he was breaking peace treaties casually. The reason for going to the war is more likely to make allies in the middle east, to supplant the current governments with Democracies, but the justification were as previously said. Russia, on the other hand, did start an illegal war.
Also, if China attacks Taiwan we'd 100% support them and probably send ground troops. They manufacture a huge chunk of our microchips and the other huge chunk is made in ... China. So you know, 'war is bad' doesn't really suffice again. Also which country are you from? I hope you're not an American with this simple view? I am 90% sure you're Russian with that Ukraine BS.
The funniest thing, though. I don't claim to support the long war in the middle east. I do intend to understand it instead of whine like you. Apparently the illustrious US leaders thought we'd be supported with open arms by the Iraqis after quelling Saddam Hussein, but this was BS. We wanted to make a massive ally out of the middle east, and so sent troops to stabilize the region and create Democracies. It was a foolish war, and a foolish war leads to death like any other war. The American people were tricked into thinking it was a necessary war, but I doubt it really was, and in retrospect many would agree with me. Nonetheless, the reasons to go to the middle east were convincing at the time, and people wanted to create a world where Saddam didn't get his genocidal hands on nukes.
[deleted] t1_jdnb0zk wrote
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Betterchicken9 t1_jdnegzy wrote
I would rather advocate for a peace talks as opposed to fighting to the last Ukrainian. Disagreeing on this concept makes you a warmonger.
Russia controlling the worlds oil....who cares? Most of Europe is going through a huge energy crisis after sanctioning them even though they left Afghanistan. So we can't let Russia control Afghanistans oil but we can? So then you agree we were there to steal their resources? Heyyy Russia is killing people and committing proxy wars in Afghanistan so its totally okay for us to do the same? Weird.
We literally helped him with his use of chemical weapons.
Sending troops thousands of miles away from you homeland and killing thousands of people is not how you establish a democracy. Killing world leaders and installing a puppet dictatorship is how we make allies in the region.
Literally the last democratically elected president Iran had was removed and replaced with a puppet dictator in 1953. We did this on the behalf of BP. We later replaced that dictator with the ayatollah lol. Then we sanction the people of Iran for having a brutal dictatorship. A dictatorship that we installed. This is not the first country we have done this too. Please do not fall for the silly propaganda we go in these regions to install democracies. Especially after killing hundreds of thousands of them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq
It was an illegal invasion.
We would absolutely support Taiwan because we are run by warmongers similar to yourself. War is bad does suffice. It is not complicated. You would be willing to go to war because of... microchips??? IF we stopped deindustrializing we wouldn't even to worry about that. We don't need to go to any wars we just need to usher in peace talks. Something China has been doing.
https://time.com/6262985/china-saudi-arabia-iran-ukraine-peace-talks/
Does it matter where I am from? You think I'm Russian because I want diplomacy in Ukraine?
If you actually understood the war you would be whining instead of warmongering. Yeah it was just a silly war where we killed hundreds of thousands of people. whoops!
War leads to death I am glad you understand this. What I don't understand is why your first instinct when bringing up China or Russia is war. If you are itching to go to war you are absolutely free to go to Ukraine and fight with them. If you aren't then you're just a warmonger sitting behind a computer screen.
BigbunnyATK t1_jdtew72 wrote
LoL weak reply, guess you gave up. Slava Ukraine!
[deleted] t1_jdtivkl wrote
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BigbunnyATK t1_jdw586j wrote
Slava Ukraine ;)
throw1e t1_jdo9jj0 wrote
There is a subtle irony here that you missed when you typed that out on a machine that is full of petro chemical derived materials.
Betterchicken9 t1_jdomkti wrote
You’re not making any argument.
throw1e t1_jdor5ir wrote
If you can't connect these dots on your own I'm not sure I can help.
Betterchicken9 t1_jdoumfz wrote
Again, you are making no argument.
throw1e t1_jdovim0 wrote
I'm not arguing here, just pointing out that you, yourself, not the government or the military, is the actual problem since you consume these conflict resources, apparently in ignorance, and point your figure with no sense of irony. I suspect this won't sit well with you, but hey I tried to connect the dots for you, told you it wouldn't help. This atitude is why the world is burning.
[deleted] t1_jdozdxh wrote
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Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdiw4je wrote
So we should be stealing Syrian oil because if we dope a hypothetical situation exists where another country would do what we are doing? We have no business being there l
BigbunnyATK t1_jdkijxi wrote
No, it's not hypothetical. As I said, Russia was already in these countries trying to garner complete control. Nothing hypothetical about it. Read up and have true opinions. There is no point in having half baked opinions on very serious history. You can't claim to be informed when even the small information I linked even discredits what you said. Also it's well known that one of, if not the main reason, that we went to the middle east was to fight a proxy war with Russia. Not an imaginary war. A proxy war. Look at Russia's involvement in Afghanistan, too.
Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdklbmf wrote
Imagine being pro proxy war
BigbunnyATK t1_jdkn28x wrote
You're not replying with anything meaningful. I'll assume you're a troll if you don't respond with some sort of formed opinion based on history and geopolitics. I'm more than willing to debate these things, but "America bad" is not an opinion.
Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdkn8iq wrote
Wars are bad. Fighting proxy wars so the military industrial complex can make quarterly profits is bad. America is falling apart at the seems because we spend all our money on endless wars
throw1e t1_jdoahwv wrote
America is #1 in immigration rates per capita and in light of that fact your statement is hyperbole. Maybe you should try Russia?
Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdocewe wrote
Nice logic
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