Submitted by CrackHeadRodeo t3_115gvzr in news
MeatsimPD t1_j938ffe wrote
Reply to comment by freshgeardude in Palestinian activist beaten by Israeli soldier tells CNN he is scared for his life. by CrackHeadRodeo
> The west Bank has never be part of a formal country
Even if this were true, it doesn't mean it's "free real estate" that any other country can just go in and settle without regard to the people who live there. Colonialism is not a thing anymore.
>Which is all to say, Israel has already shown a willingness to evacuate its citizens in exchange for peace (see: Sinai, Gaza, and proposed Golan heights).
That's true, Israel did withdraw from the Sinai and has a lasting peace with Egypt. That withdraw includes removing the settlements Israelis had established.
But Israel has not withdrawn from the Golan Heights or the West Bank, though it did withdraw from Gaza. These examples show that while removing settlements doesn't immediately lead to peace, it is a necessary pre condition.
>Additionally, Ukraine thinks of itself as Israel in the conflict, not the Palestinians
Does it? Ukraine isn't forcibly occupying territory outside its recognized borders, but Israel is
freshgeardude t1_j93mgg2 wrote
>Even if this were true, it doesn't mean it's "free real estate" that any other country can just go in and settle without regard to the people who live there. Colonialism is not a thing anymore.
I mean there're still multiple conflicts on this planet with disputed lands. And you're pretending the settlements are specifically displacing existing communities to move in Israeli communities. That's not happening
> That's true, Israel did withdraw from the Sinai and has a lasting peace with Egypt. That withdraw includes removing the settlements Israelis had established. > > But Israel has not withdrawn from the Golan Heights or the West Bank, though it did withdraw from Gaza. These examples show that while removing settlements doesn't immediately lead to peace, it is a necessary pre condition.
Factually untrue. Actually the opposite.
After a peace agreement with Egypt, then settlements were removed. As for Gaza, they removed them first and have Hamas now. There's zero chance Israel is making the same mistake..
>Does it? Ukraine isn't forcibly occupying territory outside its recognized borders, but Israel is
Perhaps this conflict is more complicated than you think.
MeatsimPD t1_j93osiy wrote
> And you're pretending the settlements are specifically displacing existing communities to move in Israeli communities. That's not happening
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
No one can honestly say that all the land occupied by Israeli settlers was empty or unowned prior to their arrival. Honestly you've just made one of the most absurd statements about the West Bank I've ever heard, so absurd I have to believe it's a deliberate lie because no one could be so misinformed
>As for Gaza, they removed them first and have Hamas now. There's zero chance Israel is making the same mistake
Are you telling me that the rise of Hamas in Gaza is because Israel removed it's settlements?
freshgeardude t1_j93ql9a wrote
Did a single settlement consist of kicking out Palestinians, razing it, and building a Jewish community ontop or are you going to send me articles about animals grazing or roads being put up?
>Are you telling me that the rise of Hamas in Gaza is because Israel removed it's settlements?
No I'm saying the one time settlements were preemptively removed has lead to countless wars with Hamas. Israel isn't leaving the west Bank willingly and the majority settlment blocks are never going to be evacuated. Both sides know this and land swaps have already in theory been agreed on
MeatsimPD t1_j93sumo wrote
> Did a single settlement consist of kicking out Palestinians, razing it, and building a Jewish community ontop or are you going to send me articles about animals grazing or roads being put up?
I honestly believe you being deliberately obtuse if you're going to tell me it doesn't matter to people whose livelihoods is raising animals whether or not they have access to grazing lands.
But to answer your question the answer is yes, here's some examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehelim
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukhin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modi%27in_Illit
And here are the camps many of the people who have lost their homes now live in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps
Even today Palestinian homes are being torn down https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem
>Israel isn't leaving the west Bank willingly and the majority settlment blocks are never going to be evacuated.
I don't disagree, Israel's military occupation is permanent for the foreseeable future, but none of this changes the facts:
Fact 1) The West Bank is not part of Israel's territory
Fact 2) Annexing territory by force is against international law
Fact 3) Settling your citizens on seized lands outside of your state's territory is against international law.
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