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jbae_94 t1_j8t686b wrote

Interesting to see what caused the descent

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Panaka OP t1_j8th9al wrote

This event was a runway incursion, not the descent after takeoff. In this case the United flight landed on RWY 4R into HNL and was given taxi instructions to exit RWY 4R and hold short of RWY4L. Instead the United plane continued and taxied onto RWY 4L as a Cessna 208 was landing on that runway.

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lensman3a t1_j8tkays wrote

Sounds like the FFA has cut some training and review training mandatory classes.

President Reagan blew up the union 40 years ago. Those new hires then are retiring today. Poorly trained replacements.

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Panaka OP t1_j8tmdhk wrote

> Sounds like the FFA has cut some training and review training mandatory classes.

This article and one posted by FR24, don’t really point to a controller error. United crossed 4L when they were supposed to hold short of it.

> Those new hires then are retiring today.

Mandatory retirement for a controller is at 56 and the absolute youngest you can be to exercise a CTO is 18 (this doesn’t really happen). The youngest replacements possible would have to have been hired in 1985 at 18 years old and would retire this year. PATCO was broken in 1981.

Those newhires retired a decade ago.

> Poorly trained replacements.

The FAA Academy has some genuine issues that the FAA willfully ignores, but this was pilot deviation not a controller error.

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lensman3a t1_j8ux6cx wrote

I know for a fact all commercial airline pilots must have a college education. I hope that FAA control personnel have to have the same education.

I would hope that FAA personnel make at least as much as an airlines pilot who have 200+ lives resting on their skill.

Forced retirement at 56 is a waste of talent and experience. (Didn't know about the age requirement, but the age is rather random).

An 18 year old hire is NOT college educated.

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Panaka OP t1_j8v0bez wrote

> I know for a fact all commercial airline pilots must have a college education.

That isn’t the case anymore and many Majors are starting to move away from that requirement.

> I hope that FAA control personnel have to have the same education.

The FAA requires a Bachelor’s degree, three years of work history, or a combination of post high school education and work that total 3 years. Once hired, you go to the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City for a few months. If you graduate (failure rate fluctuates between 30-70%) you then go to a Center or Tower facility where you receive specialized training for that facility. This process can take 2-5 years depending on the complexity of the area. If you washout of a Center, you may be offered a chance to try Tower. If you wash out of Tower, you’re done.

It’s perfectly viable that a controller not have a Bachelor’s degree.

> Forced retirement at 56 is a waste of talent and experience.

It’s done for safety reasons. Mental acuity starts to drop which drives risk up. If they wish to stay in the field they can move up in management or work for a support contractor.

> An 18 year old hire is NOT college educated.

While 18 years old is the youngest you can get a CTO, it would be hard to meet the requirements of the FAA to get hired as a controller. There are contract towers which you can earn a CTO at and work contract, but that’s a very limited and costly option. Bringing up the 18 year old requirement for a CTO was to show that no one hired in the immediate aftermath of the PATCO dissolution is still pushing tin.

My main point is that your statement about Reagan causing all of ATC’s current issues is based on faulty logic. Congress has continually undermined and underfunded the FAA for 40 years since and the FAA has refused any reform for their Academy facility instead pretending everything’s going to be okay.

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