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leni710 t1_j8rm9e5 wrote

Reply to comment by Hereiam_AKL in Little evidence to support health claims made on formula milk by Dodomando

>It's best if it comes from the breast

👀

And for all of us who've actually birthed and fed babies who know that this obnoxious sentiment does not encompass the myriad ways in which that is "easier said than done" want to encourage anyone currently struggling to make sure your infant is fed to keep doing what works for your family.

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Someshortchick t1_j8rmyvz wrote

I prefer the sentiment "Fed is best"

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leni710 t1_j8rsr5u wrote

My 13 year old would agree🤣

I've seen a couple adds nowadays that show that sentiment a bit more. I hope people will understand that this is the ideal.

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maybebatshit t1_j8shgl6 wrote

Right? I personally found the health benefits of my children not starving to death from my lack of milk production to be better than breast feeding.

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BlkSunshineRdriguez t1_j8rohye wrote

When I had my babies about 20 years ago we were under pressure to bottlefeed formula and discouraged from breastfeeding. Are people now under pressure to breastfeed?

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thetruetrueu t1_j8rotzz wrote

Extremely so. My wife just went through this process and its like a cult.

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Spoonloops t1_j8s8aik wrote

It feels like this is the current "mom scene" in a nut shell. After my first I left all the "support" groups for moms because its such a toxic competition over everything. Doesnt matter what they do, moms (and Dads!) get picked apart and shamed. Obviously there's some actual dangerous practices that deserve it, but the bulk of it is just ridiculous.

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thetruetrueu t1_j8safn9 wrote

It was appalling and watching my wife feel so much anguish over it was just jaw dropping. She actually was developing terrible mastitis and did not realize it until it was emergency room time because she was trying to ‘push through’.

I was just so oblivious to how much competition and stress are in those circles.

Its a privilege to have a smooth birth and breastfeeding experience. We did not have either and were made to feel like we did something wrong.

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Spoonloops t1_j8sd6wu wrote

People forget not that long ago something like 2 out 5 kids didn't make it to their 3rd birthday. Infant and toddler deaths where very high. We have alot of tools now to prevent this. My youngest was born with a rare defect that used to have a 98% mortality rate, now its unheard of for a baby to die from it because of a simple surgery and some intervention at birth. Now he gets to live a perfectly normal (whatever that is) life like it never happened. I just can't get my head around these super privileged moms who got lucky trying to pretend modern medical and feeding advancements are evil and being cruel to other moms about it.

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Poka_poke t1_j8sbfak wrote

Was in the hospital with my 3 week old baby (still wasn't discharged yet due to some health issue which got resolved) and we ran out of my defrosted breastmilk during a feed. The nurse said we can just stop this feeding session because the only other immediately available option was formula, which was apparently worse than to just leave the baby hungry? I requested to use the formula if it was available and the nurse rushed off and came back with breastmilk which she quickly defrosted.

My point is that yes, there is stigma against formula, at least in the hospitals I was in.

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leni710 t1_j8rs16z wrote

Interestingly, it was the opposite for me...but with some added layers: my mom said when she had me, the pressure was to bottle feed from her elders who were the first generation to really be encouraged to do so. Then she balked that sentiment from them and breast fed. Then she pressured me to breast feed, also around 20 years ago when I had my first, and it was so complicated that when it was too difficult, I thought I was the failure. I'm of the opinion that people need to do what works in order to feed babies.

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bad-fengshui t1_j8s8gz0 wrote

There is an insane pressure to breastfeed.

Our pediatrician let it slip that even though she her stance is "fed is best", she avoids giving real medical diagnoses because they often result in mother giving up breastfeeding.

In our case our baby was screaming 24/7, had constant reflux to the point that anytime you put him down he would just gurggle on his own vomit, and had constant painful gas. We suspected a food allergy, but she just basically pretend like it wasn't possible.

It was only after we proved to her that it was a food allergy, that she mentioned why she pretended like it didn't exist.

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JennJayBee t1_j8sd1nb wrote

Mine was 16 years ago. I had some pressure to breast feed, but thankfully it wasn't as much as some. I've heard some horror stories of women being pressured pretty hard. I remember sitting in the hospital bed in tears in the middle of the night with my newborn daughter screaming in my arms because she was hungry and not getting fed. One of the nurses was an absolute angel and brought me some formula, which did the trick until my milk came in properly.

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Hereiam_AKL t1_j8roxlp wrote

Sorry if that came over the wrong way. We were struggling with our first born as well and had the baby formula ready to be used, when everything started to work out. I grew up bottle fed, not because my mother didn't have enough milk or not enough time, but because she honestly fell for all the advertising and believed that baby formula is actually better than breastfeeding. It was so deeply rooted, that she even asked us if we didn't think it was better to use formula, despite there being no need for it.

Of course the most important thing is that the baby is feeding, one way or the other. My sentence was aiming at the advertisement, and claiming false health benefits, which lead to people actually believing that breastfeeding is for parents who cannot afford formula.

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lowdiver t1_j8rpi6g wrote

I nearly starved 30 years ago because my mother didn’t produce enough milk and was under such pressure to breastfeed.

Fed is best. Guilting women for not breastfeeding is what literally nearly killed me.

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AbanoMex t1_j8s2kgl wrote

> Guilting women for not breastfeeding is what literally nearly killed me.

indeed, i have a 1month old girl, and my wife produced so little milk that if we were living in the wilderness, the baby would have starved, so we had to go Formula, i guess not everyone has the luck of not spending money on milk.

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Littlebotweak t1_j8rpqk3 wrote

You still didn’t prove “it’s best if it comes from the breast” with this trope. I get it, you believe that, but your belief isn’t necessarily true.

There’s a cult around breastfeeding now just like there was corporate pressure to formula feed when you were a kid.

They BOTH extol health benefits that aren’t proven. They BOTH try to insist they’re best.

It’s a shitty, divisive topic, and it’s just ignorant for anyone to come along and state, as a fact, that one is better than the other for [reasons].

Just stop. You’ve got your foot basically down your throat. Consider for a moment that there isn’t a side to pick, here, so maybe you simply shouldn’t. That’s the big lesson from this “debate”. It’s that there isn’t one, just advertisers and the media trying to make people feel like they should. Don’t fall for it.

Mothers are under so much fucking scrutiny from day one. Stop adding to the pile.

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Hereiam_AKL t1_j8rtwr9 wrote

Looks like you decided that I am the perfect villain... Little point in discussing then. So maybe read that article here then, it's pretty much my point. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/20/is-breast-really-best-i-looked-at-all-the-data-to-find-out

I completely agree with this part here:

Where does this leave us? In a sense, none of this argues against the claim that “breast is best”. It seems it is best in terms of infant health. Where I think we run into complexity is in how we contextualise the size of the benefits, taking into account the fact that breastfeeding is difficult and may not be practical for all.

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leni710 t1_j8s8kne wrote

When you're trying to have these discussions, keep in mind some various populations of people and the fact that these are communities that have grown, thus changing the landscape in more ways than one:

-infants in foster care

-infants adopted out

-infants raised by relatives, away from the person who birthed them

-medications needing to be used that negatively impact breast milk

-transgender people giving birth who might no longer be able to breast feed

-teenagers having babies who are struggling to breast feed

-working people who can't stay on top of the breast feeding cycles

-people with post partum mental health issues who are unable to breast feed

-anxieties, depression, and the like that people have that can create adverse environments for breast feeding

-illness that makes it difficult to put baby near the sick person for breast feeding

-societal bullshit around "ahhh, boobies are public nudity and you will be charged as such"

-in general, gross ass people objectifying breast feeding

-sudden change in family dynamics, like a spouse moving out, that requires a new way of feeding infants

I could go on. But I need people to stop shaming the reality of feeding infants. The forced-birther side wanting everyone to just pop out babies is already doing more than enough harm to push people into making dangerous decisions. Infant and maternal mortality rates in the U.S., specifically for Black and Brown people, is insanely high for a "first world" country. The last thing anyone needs is some holier than thou shit around feeding infants, children, and all people. If you're mad enough at the manufacturer, tell them to make better products of formula, don't try to die on a hill of shaming vulnerable people.

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Littlebotweak t1_j8rwxyr wrote

What happens is this: parents who manage to breast feed tend to gain a sick sense of superiority and go around telling everyone else it’s the best. Not because they’ve done any new studies or gained any further data - it is based completely on egoism. The fact that you did it means you’re doing everything “the best” therefore….you’re the best!! Yay! Best parent award!!!

Because they really believe it, even if it isn’t true. Then, they seek any bias to confirm that belief.

This is literally what you’re doing. And in a public forum, no less. That’s how convinced you are. 😂

Linking to the guardian isn’t gonna change that, just like it never changes anything else. 😂😂😂

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Spoonloops t1_j8s8zkd wrote

I just read recently alot of the small studies suggesting breastfed babies are "smarter" and hit milestones faster are flawed and don't look at economical situations on the advantages of breast vs formula. Its shown women who breastfeed in the US tend to be higher income families who are able to stay home with their kids, homeschool, etc, while most of the formula fed kids where lower income, mom had to go back to work quickly and leave baby at a daycare, etc. Entirely different first years have different outcomes.

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DormeDwayne t1_j8t1gii wrote

So basically a mother who breastfed is not allowed to express her view that breastfeeding is best? And a person who has lost weight is not allowed to express the opinion that being normal weight is healthiest? And a happily married parent is not allowed to say out loud that two-parent families are best for kids? Etc etc. Their opinion is automatically prohibited bcs it can only possibly come from a place of smugness and not that they have tried both and find one preferable or whatever? Sounds dangerously censoring…

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ibbity t1_j8t2407 wrote

These people are not allowed to act like their choices are automatically, inherently superior, and that anyone who makes a different choice is wrong and bad and should be shamed. Which you and I both know good and well is a very, very common behavior.

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DormeDwayne t1_j8tehtg wrote

The thing is a mom who formula-fed her baby is allowed to praise bottle-feeding… but a mother who breastfed isn’t allowed to praise breastfeeding without being accused of shaming any other option. Why is that?

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FeloniousReverend t1_j8te06m wrote

No, but everything you listed is purely anecdotal unless there's some kind of real evidence to support the claims. A random mother who breastfed and never used formula claiming that 'breast is best' is absolutely meaningless. How would she know breast is best, and by what criteria is she making such a claim? Hell, how does she know her kid wouldn't be better off if they had some formula mixed in? It's not censorship, it's keeping opinions as opinions and not facts. This applies to every example you listed.

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