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scrubjays t1_iy3sjzn wrote

Reply to comment by biz_reporter in Which NJ city is the most corrupted? by [deleted]

I have lived in Chicago, and in Albany, and NJ is by far the most corrupt place I have ever been. In each of those places there are very particular places to steal, and ways to do it. In Bergen county there are 70 towns, and 74 school districts and some similar number of police agencies. Each one, plus every public service, is a different opportunity for someone to steal. Whether it is a town worker in Ridgewood stealing $400,000 in quarters from parking meters or the newly elected mayor of Hoboken taking $2500 in a paper bag from a stranger in a diner, NJ corruption is stunning in how common it is, for such small amounts. That the mayor of Jersey city for over 100 years has always served time in prison is just one small bite out of the huge smorgasbord of NJ corruption.

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CapeManiac t1_iy44ae8 wrote

Lol you think this happens more in nj than the other areas? Why? How?

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scrubjays t1_iy4b7ug wrote

>Why? How?

Here, because of so much local rule. NYC has 1 school district and 1 police system, for 1 million students and 9 million citizens. Bergen county has 74 school districts and 72 police forces for 1 million residents. That is 70 times the number of contracts, negotiations, purchasing dept etc. Each one is a different opportunity to steal. If you just look at the cost of maintaining 70 police chiefs and school superintendents, you can start to see the scale of waste. If you follow the news whenever some local town official goes down for using town services, that is the sort of thing that is really common here and unlikely in other places.

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CapeManiac t1_iy4o39u wrote

NYC police department and DOE hAVE HUGE employee lists and MANY “director” level staff that would exist in other forms if smaller departments or districts existed.

In other words aren’t really any less chances of corruption to happen because they’re still as many people are just about as many people in the process. just look up NYCDOE organizational chart for just one level of insanity.

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scrubjays t1_iy4ptm7 wrote

Union contracts. One contract for all the cops, one for all the teachers in NYC. One group of negotiators. In Bergen county, there are at least 140 different contracts for the same thing. 140 groups of lawyers and negotiators, all of whom have to be paid every 3 years. That is one tiny facet of the differences between the systems.

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CapeManiac t1_iy4zb3a wrote

The njea has negotiators for the districts, again it may be more efficient and even cost saving to do what you’re proposing but doubtful it reduces “corruption” to any degree.

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scrubjays t1_iy50rye wrote

You think that having hundreds and hundreds of places where lawyers and union negotiators meet rather than one might not make for more opportunities for corruption? I am not talking about the water, housing and sewer authorities, all of which also have multiple contracts. NJ politics is set up for ample opportunities for corruption. At one point in the last few decades, NJ had no city over 100,000 people that did NOT have a mayor either indicted or convicted in the previous decade. That does not happen in other states. Don't take my word for it: https://www.nj.com/politics/2017/03/mayors_under_indictment_a_long_jersey_tradition.html

In other states, when the corruption gets too out of hand, they centralize. If you want to steal in New York State, you go to Albany. Here, you don't have to go to Trenton to get your cousin the snow plowing contract, or get your son on the police force when you are the mayor of the town. All this local rule makes so many places for corruption, we are buried in it.

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biz_reporter t1_iy6oky0 wrote

Your perspective is interesting. However, I don't think centralization is often the solution. Look to Massachusetts as an example. Corruption at the county level that nearly bankrupted Middlesex County led to the abolishen of 8 counties in the late 1990s and resulted in local tax savings. The remaining counties are mostly centered around Cape Cod and the Islands where most of the towns are unincorporated making the county services important unlike in the rest of the state. Granted, Massachusetts has half as many cities and towns as NJ. Most towns in Mass are physically larger than what you find in Bergen, Essex and Union counties here. Nonetheless, we don't hear many stories about corruption from Massachusetts.

The Washington Post last year listed the 6 most corrupt states, and NJ was 5th. It also shows that mayors and city councils of large cities are just as prone to corruption as little town mayors as evidenced by the Chicago and New Orleans examples in the article. And even mid-size mayors like in Providence, R.I. are capable of gross corruption too. This too proves that centralization does not stop corruption.

I've often wondered if Massachusetts' decision to abolish its counties might save NJ tax payers. I pay as much to my municipal government as I do to my county government. My tax bill would drop by a fourth without it. Though presumably the state would have to pick up county duties, but they could also get rid of the ANCHOR Benefit in exchange for the end of county taxes.

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