Azr431 OP t1_j33ew10 wrote on January 5, 2023 at 7:59 PM

Reply to comment by SkiingAway in Nine largest American utilities by market cap made $14B in profit in 2022 by Azr431

CPI is not directly linked to profit margins.

>I'm not saying they're great, altruistic firms, but they're largely not really responsible for your bills increasing either.

Considering Eversource sets the prices we pay, I would say they are responsible for the rates we pay. Before you reply with "but they're just passing on the rates they're paying", reread the three bullet points I noted.

This is why we need not-for-profit public or publicly-owned utilities. Neo-liberal deregulation is a sham to enrich the capitalist class and extract from the working class.

SkiingAway t1_j33kxoj wrote on January 5, 2023 at 8:34 PM

> CPI is not directly linked to profit margins.

Percentages? No. Nominal dollar values of those profits? Yes, it pretty much is.

> "but they're just passing on the rates they're paying"

Yes, that's accurate, at least for the part of your bill that's seen a huge hike.

> reread the three bullet points I noted.

I've read them, I just don't think they're a very definitive representation.

For example, the difference in earnings between Q3 '22 and Q3 '21 appears not to be anything to do with actually increased earnings, it's just that they had $63m in fines in Q3 '21 that they didn't have in Q3 '22, revenues were almost the same.

Beyond that, the company has drastically changed size over the past few years. A far larger company should probably make more money.

Azr431 OP t1_j33nqmn wrote on January 5, 2023 at 8:50 PM

It's obvious we won't see eye to eye on this, so I'll reframe a simple question for you.

Do you think it's ok for an electricity provider that's supplying a basic need to pay $644M of dividends to shareholders with our money for three quarters in 2022 and give their CEO a 28% raise in one year?

SkiingAway t1_j33rkzp wrote on January 5, 2023 at 9:13 PM

I think there's two questions:

Are for-profit utilities a good thing - Probably not, especially as many currently function. At minimum, they need tighter regulation or better market design/structure.
Are the things you're holding up as examples a significant part of the increase in your utility costs this year - Nope.

The latter is basically my objection to your framing.

> need to pay $644M of dividends to shareholders with our money for three quarters in 2022

Their dividend last year was $0.6025/share, this year it's $0.6325/share. I'll also note that dividend payments are a big part of the market appeal of a utility company - they're not and can't be high growth businesses. They're supposed to pay out a modest, steady profit to shareholders.

> give their CEO a 28% raise in one year?

It's not particularly clear to me that the CEO got a 28% raise. This indicates the previous guy made $19.8m in 2019. So has this guy received a 28% raise from last year or a 70% pay cut from the last guy?

Realistically, the answer is probably neither given how much of their pay is tied to stock grants/stock market performance, but it's why I find these kinds of metrics - especially on a year to year basis, dumb arguments.

Azr431 OP t1_j33ug5z wrote on January 5, 2023 at 9:30 PM

>Are the things you're holding up as examples a significant part of the increase in your utility costs this year - Nope.

I never claimed the reason for the huge price increases in 2022 was because of the large dividends, CEO pay increase, etc. You formed that narrative on your own.

>Are for-profit utilities a good thing - Probably not, especially as many currently function. At minimum, they need tighter regulation or better market design/structure.

I guess a capitalist and a socialist can agree on something!