vexingsilence t1_j2x6k3b wrote
Reply to comment by Connect_Stay_137 in AG: Police shot and killed teenager allegedly armed with knife in Gilford | New Hampshire Public Radio by ACOdysseybeatsRDR2
Many cops are men too. I don't like cops for a variety of reasons but given a situation with a bad actor with a knife vs cops using lethal force, I'm not going to jump to the cops as being bad without a good reason. Crazy that society views a knife-wielder that caused enough scare that cops were called as being the good guy with no other information.
Clinically-Inane t1_j2yifam wrote
It’s not crazy to question this situation or be concerned when there’s dozens of examples of cops explicitly lying about situations that ended with a shooting, fatal or not
We don’t know what happened Saturday, but we do know that the cops cannot and should not be trusted and automatically taken at their word by default, because they frequently lie and protect each other. We don’t really have to worry about whether this 17yo’s version of the story is true, because he’s not around to tell it. We get ONE source (barring the family speaking out) and that one source is known to be unreliable. When it comes to internal investigations of criminal acts by police: they do their own, which usually works out very nicely for them
They shot Breonna Taylor asleep in her goddamn bed because they BUSTED DOWN THE WRONG DOOR, but there sure was a lot of bullshit explanation/details about why that happened until the truth finally started trickling out. We still don’t even have the full picture of what exactly happened though, because everyone involved has been so shady about it
tl;dr Crazy that society would automatically trust the word of random strangers with guns and badges who are well known to be quite liberal with their use and fairly dishonest about the reasons for that
vexingsilence t1_j2ykxc8 wrote
>We don’t know what happened Saturday
You could have stopped right there. Whether or not cops lie, regardless of other incidents in far away states, the only information we have (last I looked) was that the police used a taser and a firearm and the person with the knife died. Beyond that, any assumptions are pure fantasy. But it seems like a lot of people in this thread have already cast a verdict that the police are guilty, which is ironic considering that's what they're accusing the cops of.
Given a knife wielding suspect and the fact that someone was disturbed enough by the person's behavior to call 911, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the police, even if they're not 100% trustworthy. Normal folks don't wield a knife and cause others to call 911 for help to deal with them.
Clinically-Inane t1_j2z0ppz wrote
My exact words were “cops cannot and should not be trusted and automatically taken at their word by default”
I’m not saying there’s no way this wasn’t justified, or that cops never tell the truth, or that nobody should ever call them
I’m saying: why would I give the benefit of the doubt to people who are well known to be corrupt as a whole and brazenly show us that over and over? I haven’t cast a verdict that the police are “guilty” here, I’ve cast a verdict that any time they kill someone it should immediately be considered that maybe the bad apples have actually ruined the fucking bunch and someone may have died needlessly
I’m saying a 17yo is dead, due to a cop’s actions, and historically it’s not improbable that this could have been avoided— because cops are notoriously bad with mental health crises and deescalation
I’m saying it’s a red flag worth looking at closely when the people responsible for enforcing law and order end a civilian’s life. Do you disagree?
vexingsilence t1_j2z31r3 wrote
>why would I give the benefit of the doubt to people who are well known to be corrupt as a whole
In other words.. ACAB, right? You're just saying it in long form.
Do you have any evidence that the particular police department in this incident has a history of bad acts? Or is it just the badge that turns an ordinary person into someone that can't be trusted and must be looked at under a microscope?
If a homeowner had killed the knife wielder, would you be as suspicious?
These incidents do get reviewed, and that's part of why they haven't released a ton of information yet. But there's a whole lot of speculating going on here despite that.
>I’m saying it’s a red flag worth looking at closely when the people responsible for enforcing law and order end a civilian’s life. Do you disagree?
What I disagree with it the sentiment that just because they wear a badge that they were somehow guilty something, or the strong insinuation that they're likely to have done something wrong. It's not like they shot an unarmed person in the back.
Yes, it needs to be investigated, but considering that the individual was armed and caused enough distress that someone called 911, it's more likely than not that the police acted appropriately. Bad shoots are rare, despite what the media would have people believe.
Imagine being the cop that felt they had no choice but to end someone's life, and the public is out for blood despite knowing almost nothing about the details of the incident.
Clinically-Inane t1_j2z88wq wrote
- “It’s not like they shot an unarmed person in the back”
Do we even know that, Captain Waitforfacts?
-
Your homeowner/cop comparison is ludicrous, irrelevant, and misleading, and I’m pretty sure you know that. What if it had been the Papa John’s delivery guy? What if it had been the mailman? What if it had been his dad?
-
I have personal experience with the police killing people under very shady circumstances; my cousin died in the lobby of a Wendy’s (where he was told to stay) when the cops fired THIRTY ROUNDS in an open restaurant because an attempted robbery suspect with a fake gun was fleeing. My cousin got a bullet to his heart, and the suspect got at least one in the back while he was running away in the parking lot. Neither of those men should have ended up dead.
Do I think experiencing that has affected my views on law enforcement? Fuck yeah I do. Before that, this was something horrible and unjust that “happened to other people”. Then suddenly it was happening to me, and I was forced to confront the common brutality that most of us don’t take seriously enough because it’s NOT personal enough. I was already ripping my ACAB kazoo before I lost my cousin, but it shouldn’t take a personal loss for people to pause and say “well fuck, this keeps happening and we need some massive reforms NOW.” I’ve imagined “being the cop who had to choose to end a life” many many times; every single time the conclusion I come to is “that’s almost never the best or only choice and is often the outright wrong choice so Im not sending any thoughts and prayers out to cops with kill counts”
- If you have more to say feel free, but if it’s more bad faith bullshit like “what if a homeowner had shot the knife wielder?” I’ll be on the bench not playing that game
vexingsilence t1_j2zagbt wrote
>“It’s not like they shot an unarmed person in the back”
>
>Do we even know that, Captain Waitforfacts?
From the article:
"Police in New Hampshire shot and killed a person armed with a knife after responding to a 911 call, authorities said on Monday."
So yes, we know the person was armed with a knife.
>Your homeowner/cop comparison is ludicrous, irrelevant, and misleading, and I’m pretty sure you know that.
Nice dodge. You seem to suggest that a person becomes untrustworthy by simply wearing a badge. My question is on point. If the knife wielding person was shot and killed by someone without a badge, would you be as suspicious? It's a relevant question given your argument.
>my cousin died in the lobby of a Wendy’s (where he was told to stay) when the cops fired THIRTY ROUNDS in an open restaurant because an attempted robbery suspect with a fake gun was fleeing.
Assuming that's true, were any of those cops working for the police department involved with this incident? You seem to be vilifying an entire profession for the questionable actions of a select few.
Hope you never need surgery, there are surgeons out there that have committed malpractice, therefore they're all bad or at least presumed bad by your logic.
>every single time the conclusion I come to is “that’s almost never the best or only choice and is often the outright wrong choice
Lives aren't at stake when you're sitting on your ass pondering that.
>If you have more to say feel free, but if it’s more bad faith bullshit like “what if a homeowner had shot the knife wielder?” I’ll be on the bench not playing that game
Nothing bad faith about it. But you've revealed yourself as an irrational person who likely needs counseling. Your personal trauma doesn't make every cop out there an evil person. It doesn't even make the cops in the situation you described at the Wendy's evil people. I doubt any of them had the intent to kill bystanders. That sounds more like bad training, which can be the result of this whole idiotic "defund the police" BS that's going around. It's only going to get worse as the type of sentiments expressed in this thread cause more qualified people to avoid the profession leaving the police to hire any warm body they can find.
Clinically-Inane t1_j2ziunn wrote
Headlines are not facts. We don’t know that he even had the knife when he was shot, only that it was mentioned in the 911 call. We also don’t know that he wasn’t shot in the back while trying to run out of the house, so settle tf down
That wasn’t a dodge, it was a stupid question. If you want an answer: I’d be sus if someone random shot an intruder and I’d want exactly the same info looked into to ensure it wasn’t actually just reckless unnecessary homicide. I see way too many people (especially locally) bragging about how they can’t wait to use their new gun if any POS tries to rob them to be naive enough to not have questions there. Guns make some people— including cops— feel invincible and powerful, and that’s a common issue that can lead to really bad situations
My cousin was not killed in New England, and I have no idea who works at the police department in question here. I’m doing fine and have a therapist (long before my cousin died because I actively care about my well-being, but my therapist is also ACAB) and if you go back and re-read you’ll notice I mentioned I was firmly ACAB before my cousin even died, but his death and the injustice involved in BOTH deaths that night cemented the opinions and feelings I already had about our failure to reform law enforcement. For context, I’ve had extensive convos/debates exactly like this one before he died; I just didn’t have a personal connection to the topic then. My “personal trauma” isn’t why I think cops are ALL bastards— I think they’re ALL bastards because even the good ones are not actually good if they’re working with and backing up the shitty ones who should be behind bars
A good cop is one who quits as soon as they realize they’re working for an armed fraternity that regularly harms the public and tries to cover it up
I’m exhausted and about ready to wrap this up but friendly tip: women get called hysterical, emotional, irrational, and MORE so often you really shouldn’t waste your time with it anymore. It just doesn’t have the effect you want it to, and it makes you look like you’re too stupid to converse with. It’s not a flaw to have emotions and share them, it’s not a sign of mental illness to have strong emotions and/or feel very passionately about something, you’re wasting your time when you play the clean version of the “get some help, you crazy bitch” card, and suggesting therapy to someone because they actively and loudly want cops to stop harming and killing civilians kind of makes you look like the crazy bitch here
Maybe you should seek therapy for whatever trauma has caused you to get so emotional and irrationally worked up when defending cops ❤️
ps- yes, I am a criminal and I’m SO EMBARRASSED that you outed me like this. I literally just left a mugging and was on my way to meet your dad for drinks and maybe trying to bust open an ATM later but now I’m going to have to sulk all night and try to find a new identity before the police see this post 😞
vexingsilence t1_j2zl3sp wrote
>Headlines are not facts. We don’t know that he even had the knife when he was shot, only that it was mentioned in the 911 call.
Again, for the reading impaired:
"Police in New Hampshire shot and killed a person armed with a knife after responding to a 911 call, authorities said on Monday."
The way it's phrased describes the police shooting someone that's armed with a knife, not this alternate scenario that you've come up with.
​
>I’d be sus if someone random shot an intruder and I’d want exactly the same info looked into to ensure it wasn’t actually just reckless unnecessary homicide.
Ok. Not sure what a "necessary homicide" is, but that's something. Are you trying to avoid the word "justified" because it's a term used for police involved shootings?
​
>I think they’re ALL bastards because even the good ones are not actually good if they’re working with and backing up the shitty ones who should be behind bars.
That's irrational. Do you have any reason to believe that there's anything nefarious going on with the department involved with this incident? It sounds like you don't, yet you're vilifying them anyway based purely on their profession.
​
>A good cop is one who quits as soon as they realize they’re working for an armed fraternity that regularly harms the public and tries to cover it up.
Are you wanting every cop on the planet to quit?
​
>women get called hysterical, emotional, and MORE so often you really shouldn’t waste your time with it anymore.
Holy hell. I had no idea what your gender was nor do I care. I'm calling you irrational because your opinions here are irrational.
​
>t’s not a flaw to have emotions and share them, it’s not a sign of mental illness to have strong emotions and/or feel very passionately about something.
Attributing the acts of a very small number of cops that have no connection to anyplace near here to the police involved in this incident based on almost no information is clearly not backed by any sort of logical thinking.
Clinically-Inane t1_j307y72 wrote
A “necessary homicide” would be exactly what we’re talking about here: the death of a person due to someone else’s actions, which in this case you say is likely justified because the police had to do it (I have no problems with the word justified so I have no effing clue what you’re talking about there)
It’s not an expression I’ve ever even seen; I just said UNNECESSARY meaning senseless/preventable/avoidable
“The way it’s phrased—“ 👉HEADLINES ARE NOT FACTS👈
The title of a news article SHOULD reflect the actual facts but sometimes they don’t, or they’re just worded poorly, and we have no idea whether they used that phrasing because it’s word for word reflecting what actually happened, or if the person who wrote it used that headline because it just made sense: the police responded to a call about someone armed with a knife, so therefore he must have had a knife when he was shot. I once saw a WMUR headline that said “Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Facing Death Penalty And More Snow” and I just really don’t think assuming you’re getting cold hard concrete facts from headline wording is a great idea. Do not recommend. Certain things, sure— I’m not going to quibble about whether the cops were involved or whether someone even died because I’m not an asshole devil’s advocate. But I don’t read that headline and get the same takeaway as you, so there’s obviously some confusion possible around it
Maybe he did have the knife on him, I don’t know that and I have no way to know for now, but ffs for someone braying to the heavens about how “We should all wait for the FACTS!” you’re pretty heavy into calling your own assumptions (that this kid MUST have been a lethal threat holding a knife, and there was no other choice, because “the wording on one headline sounds like that’s definitely the case”) about what happened correct and everyone else’s ✨wrong✨. How about what happened when they went in? Do you have that intel? Did they all yell at the same time and point guns at the kid? Was he told to do multiple different things at once, ie “DONT MOVE!” and “ON THE GROUND!” and “DROP THE WEAPON!” all yelled within 3 seconds? I’m sure you’ll share with the class
Don’t you get exhausted defending people with a lot more power than the rest of us who we know abuse it frequently in various ways and then tell us to suck it up when they get caught lying about it? You’re really going hard for the cops here, and they really don’t deserve it at this point
vexingsilence t1_j324855 wrote
I didn't base anything on the headline. The body of the article clearly states that the individual was armed with a knife according to the authorities. Could the reporter have gotten that wrong? Possible, but unlikely.
> You’re really going hard for the cops here
I'm going hard for not sentencing the cops based on what sounds like a justified use of force situation. So far, there aren't any red flags.
No-Acanthaceae-8809 t1_j30nxd2 wrote
>Maybe you should seek therapy for whatever trauma has caused you to get so emotional and irrationally worked
This is stupid. Its reddit comments. The only one who appears worked up here is you.
Clinically-Inane t1_j315908 wrote
lmao that was a blatant fucking joke, you scrambled egg. The vexing void of silence told me I’m “an irrational person who likely needs therapy” and suggested the trauma of cops killing my cousin in an oopsie is why I have the beliefs I do (spoiler: I’m not, I do, and it’s not)
I promise that no matter how stupid you think I am it’s not halfway as cooked as you are kiddo
bro omg why are u so mad tho bro calm down it’s just Reddit and I’m worried about you bro
No-Acanthaceae-8809 t1_j31q94c wrote
lmao you're such a dork
PossiblyCreepy605 t1_j31zg6m wrote
That dude is absolutely batshit
Clinically-Inane t1_j2z2n8y wrote
just so you’re aware: anyone can call the police on someone for any reason they feel like. A phone call being made to the police does not mean the person who made the call had good reason to do so
I am not saying whoever called 911 here shouldnt have done so or had no reason to because I don’t have any way of knowing that but people call the police over ridiculous things all the time, and their ridiculous claims aren’t validated just because they were “concerned enough’ to call and make them
vexingsilence t1_j2z419z wrote
>A phone call being made to the police does not mean the person who made the call had good reason to do so
Wow, so now not only are all cops bad, but now people who call 911 are bad too. Are you a criminal? Seems like criminals might be the only people you don't have a beef with.
A guy has a knife, someone calls 911, and you're questioning the cops and the caller. Do you think the guy with the knife might have been up to something? Is that even a possibility in your mind?
I'm sure someone handed this guy a knife and told him to act out a horror movie scene as they dashed off to call 911 so they could have the cops show up and kill him. That's obviously the most likely scenario here. </s>
Clinically-Inane t1_j2zbabd wrote
Yeah, a conspiracy is definitely what I’m assuming this is
Massive, federal level shit
Blow your mind, stg
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