sje46 t1_j1t2gmf wrote on December 27, 2022 at 4:19 AM

Reply to comment by RisksRewardsRelics in Failed meme but NH placement is precious by WoobieBee

Well, certainly people on the left have guns. But the meme is about how the left has far less guns than the right does.

If there were ever a civil war, the "left" would be screwed. And that is unfortuante, because I'm on the left. The right is the interior of the country and essentially control the supply chain, food, electricity, and infrastructure in general. And don't forget that it naturally works out that the "left's" powerbases are split in half by the enemy. People who join the military disproportionately are politically conservative, and lots of people go on to form militias and train to fight. The legacy of a militant left in the US died in the 70s. The modern day left is undisciplined, unarmed, pessimistic divided over irrelevant culture war bullshit, and believes that praxis is done by posting on twitter. If there were a civil war, which roughly corresponds to the last presidnetial election (extremely unlikely it'd go along state borders, but whatever), then the side associated with the democrats would lose handily. Not that that side wouldn't have some advantages but I think they would be minor compared to the more militaristic-minded half of hte country which can be more meaningfully said to make this country work.

Also for New Hampshire in particular...it's silly to say that NH would definitely be on the left because of the last presidential election. It is a purple state. I would say it's probably, though, because it's closed off by the rest of the country by Vermont and Mass, and the entire region is cut off by New York, so NH has no chance at all, not to mention the fact that New England has the highest ratio of food imports. We can't produce our own food for shit, and if the conservative army cuts off our territory at the seaboard, then the entire new england region would slowly starve to death, especially during the winter.

So yeah, dismal stuff.

RisksRewardsRelics t1_j1t44ey wrote on December 27, 2022 at 4:35 AM

Civil war would cause a breakdown in the supply and distribution chain that everyone relies on. Both sides would suffer in that regard.

The right may own more guns, but those stats don’t take into consideration how many guns are being stockpiled by individuals.

From all of the right wing militia training videos I’ve seen, their focus seems to be on intimidation, rather than gaining any sort of tactical advantage. The left may be unorganized by comparison (and they absolutely are), but they generally tend to be better prepared with a broader skill set as individuals. Take a look at the American Revolution… the minutemen were farmers, cobblers and merchants. They didn’t train together very much and they were scattered about the countryside. They still managed to defeat the richest and most organized imperialist army on the planet.

One other thing you need to consider is that those threatening civil war are a small percentage of far-right extremists. If they start battling with the population and attacking critical infrastructure, it’s not going to be only leftists fighting back, they’ll likely also be battling against less extreme right-leaning individuals. They will be quickly outnumbered by people who they initially believe share their ideology.

sje46 t1_j1t54vk wrote on December 27, 2022 at 4:44 AM

Agreed, I don't actually think it'd be a geographically clean, traditional war. I'm just assuming the scenario assumed in the meme. That set of states versus the other set of states...who wins?

I don't think the right-wing larpers are necessarily super organized, agreed, but that they at least have arms (including surprisingly powerful stuff), military vehicles, camo, and a lot of them were in the military and very devoted.

Also the 18th century was basically a different world. They didn't have tanks, aircraft carriers, planes, etc. It's like how people assume Julius Caesar completely dominated the Gauls because he was from the more advanced culture. Certainly he won and he was always going to win, but since the tech level differences were smaller, it was a much harder battle than we in the modern day can truly appreciate.

So an actual civil war along these lines would involve half the military fighting the other half, with regular citizens being conscripted and sent to the front lines. It's at the front lines that the more gun-savvy and militiamen will have an advantage over the left. For the people not fighting, the conservative faction will simply shut off the roads, railroads, electricity, supply chain, and food for the enemy.

In actuality, I think any "civil war" would probably be more like small insurgencies that the government as a whole would try to take down, and it's not going to resemble the first american civil war in a "cleanly geographical" way.