Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Curious_Buffalo_1206 t1_ja1loqm wrote

Reply to comment by SheeEttin in the cannon mountain tram needs repairs and Sununu proposes replacing the tram with a gondola to cut costs by comefromawayfan2022

Compared to gondolas, trams cost 10x as much and get 10x fewer people up the hill per hour. They’re also gigantic Petri dishes, and it bled money like a stick pig during corona (there will be more pandemics). They’re archaic and inferior in every possible way, although they would have to design the gondola properly to keep its scenic value for summer tourists (some gondolas are cramped and have poor views).

The pro tram people just have that insufferable allergy to any change whatsoever that’s endemic around here. This tram was built in the Reagan administration. It’s not the tram from the 1930s, and by that logic, why aren’t we using government funding to restore the historic rail access from Concord to Boston? They’re fucking hypocrites, that’s why.

Fuck trams, seriously. It’s like wanting to maintain the pony express when we could have the modern USPS instead.

The only trams that have any business staying around are the Big Sky and Jackson Hole trams, for very different reasons than the Cannon boomers give.

Sununu’s on team gondola because he’s not 90 years old and possesses more than the bare minimum understanding of ski lift economics.

6

tj3616 t1_ja1os5r wrote

As someone who loves the tram strictly for its nostalgic value, I am personally offended by this post… but there’s legitimately no real counter argument I can offer. Big sad

16

T-to-B t1_ja3ixib wrote

Trams operate better in high wind. Which cannon and the notch get frequently. It's also a better attraction for summer than a gondola.

6

Curious_Buffalo_1206 t1_ja46s48 wrote

There are variations on gondolas that are highly resistant to winds, that are still much more affordable than a tram. See Palisades Tahoe’s Gold Coast Funitel for example. As windy as Cannon is, that place is far windier. Their funitel can operate in winds up to 100 km/hr (62 mph). I can’t find specs on the Cannon tram’s max wind speed, but the Sandia tram states that it cannot run above 50mph. I’d expect Cannon’s to be in the same ballpark.

I think the opposition would not be half as strong if the only local gondola (Loon’s) wasn’t such a massive piece of shit. The views are terrible, the uphill capacity is terrible, it’s always down, it’s just a terrible lift. Now that I think of it, every east coast gondola I can think of is an oddity in some way. I guess if I’d never seen a proper, modern gondola, I might oppose it too. But a tram sized budget gets you a really, really nice gondola. Not anything like Loon’s, or that ridiculous chondola at Sunday River (just… why).

2

T-to-B t1_ja5dt7t wrote

There's a lot of flash assumptions here.

The funitil isn't a gondola. It actually functions more like a tram. And I don't think they make funitil anymore. They are being replaced by 3s lifts which are pretty similar. I do think that'd be a good option for replacing the tram. But I don't think a traditional gondola is a good idea personally.

Also Cannon is actually just as windy as Palisades if not more. You know how Mount Washington had the highest wind speed record, cannon actually had the 2nd spot. Also keep in mind the cannons tram goes to the summit and the Gold Coast only goes halfway up.

There are east coast gondolas that make sense. Stratton, K1, starship, stowe just to name a few.

4

Fire-the-laser t1_ja8sceg wrote

Having worked at both Cannon and Palisades I can say without question Palisades is windier. The funitel was built specifically to handle higher winds than the previous gondola it replaced but it still routinely goes on wind hold during winters like this year where the resort will likely pass 500” of snow this week.

Anyway, most of the development of new lifts takes place in Europe and the 3s gondolas seem to be the latest and greatest for achieving uphill capacity and efficiency. Most people would still call it a team because they couldn’t tell the difference.

1

exploremore617 t1_ja373xg wrote

Sununu/WV installed a shitty 6 pack from a manufacturer that has no other lifts in NA. The lift has constant mechanical issues and will continue to be a problem for WV. That wasn’t a wise business decision for someone who understands ski lift economics

5

Curious_Buffalo_1206 t1_ja39hhw wrote

Sununu isn’t involved with running WV anymore. He’s a governor now. You can argue he has some conflict of interest due to his family’s involvement there, but he didn’t decide on that chairlift. I don’t even like the guy, but this is just silly.

Also, your larger lift manufacturers have a backlog of orders for years at the moment. All the ski conglomerates were heavily investing in new lift infrastructure (likely to take advantage of rock bottom interest rates 2 years ago).

WV didn’t want to wait five years for their new lift. Smaller operations often go with smaller contractors. There’s really nothing to see there. Only time will tell if that lift becomes a huge problem. The Doppelmayer Kanc8 at Loon was also a fucking disaster in its first year. Takes time to work out the glitches, and they’re always behind schedule on construction lately…

FWIW, I think those Doppelmayer 8 packs are horribly over-engineered, and would be a mistake to install for an operation like WV. Those are going to have excessive ongoing maintenance costs. The giants don’t care (they can negotiate with the manufacturer at their size anyway), but that’s the kind of thing that makes an Indy resort go NELSAP.

0

gortexcondom t1_ja1m9px wrote

I wanted to comment on this post but you pretty much summed up everything I was going to say perfectly. Hit the nail on the head with the last sentence lmao.

0