Submitted by Huevos___Rancheros t3_10p4zgc in movies
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6ilq1v wrote
Reply to comment by logicalnoise in Guillermo del Toro’s Pinocchio (2022) by Huevos___Rancheros
I’m not pretending there’s no sub text, it’s just not a particularly thematically deep film, and the film beats you over the head with its main themes repeatedly, it does not expect the viewer to do much of any thinking. It’s a kids first introduction to its themes and that’s fine given that it’s a kids film, but it’s not a particularly “deep cut into humanity as a whole”
editordeb87 t1_j6j494d wrote
Have you seen GDT talk about the film? there is actually a lot of deep stuff there that doenst just hit you over the head. Also this isnt a childrens movie. Its not even aimed at children. So maybe you might need to look through another lens
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6j57gr wrote
I’ve seen him talk about it. There’s nothing in the film that was particularly deep and the film has absolutely no restraint in how it works thematically.
It’s absolutely is a children’s movie come on dude lmao. I like the film as well, you do not need to be so insecure about liking a kids movies that you need to pretend it’s not one.
editordeb87 t1_j6j5fzw wrote
no one is insecure here. Its not a kids movie. Animation is not just for children. Animation is a MEDIUM. This movie hes said himself is not a kids movie. That if you do show it to your kids that it would bring some good talks but that its not made for them. And its not about me "liking it", I worked on it. I will PROUDLY say that Lion King (the original) Is one of my favorite movies. I got to disneyland every few weeks im not embarrassed by what I like.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6j6myv wrote
Bro come on, you can’t say you’re not being insecure about pretending it’s not made for kids, and then make a completely disingenuous rebuttal pretending I said something completely different and change the framing of the topic completely.
I never said animation is just for children, I literally did not claim that at all. I said Pinocchio is a kids film, which it is. It’s in the kids section of Netflix. It makes huge strides and effort to make itself palatable to children, and hold their hands throughout the entire thing story-wise. The entire purpose of how it presents itself thematically is to ensure that the children watching it get the point and take on the valuable lessons it has.
Adults can enjoy animation while also acknowledging that a film is made for children. It’s embarrassing that every time a kids film comes along that treats children with a bit of respect, grown adults like you have to pretend it’s not actually aimed at kids at all. If you want people who don’t respect animation to realise it can be for adults, actually champion animated films aimed at adults, instead of pretending films made for kids aren’t for kids, it’s not helping.
editordeb87 t1_j6jkpxs wrote
I am not pretending anything. There can be a way a crew work on it and a director envision it and then a network promote it or categorize it differently. I never said you said animation is just for children, I said what GDT said about animation. It really ISNT presented that way and I think we just both view the movie very differently. Like I wouldnt recommend to my friends to show their kids this movie alone. THATS my pov.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6jmtxx wrote
The way that you replied to my comment absolutely acts as if that was the argument I was making.
Del Toro actually talked about how the audience includes children, it’s just not a “babysitter”movie that offers no value to adults. You’re misinterpreting what he said. If kids weren’t the audience here, the PG adaptation of one of the most famous childrens stories ever would not handle its subject matter the way that it does, (including watering down the war and fascism so that it’s palatable to them). Insisting that kids movies are actually for adults and not suitable at all just devalues animations potential as an adult medium to the people who don’t think it is.
It’s a real shame that on the rare occasions kids get a genuinely good movie that seeks to teach them valuable lessons, you wouldn’t recommend them to watch it, and not thinking it’s suitable to kids shows an incredibly blatant misunderstanding of the material and it’s suitability since the director has said he made it palatable for them.
editordeb87 t1_j6jnyjw wrote
Im not out of touch here, you are completely misunderstanding me and I dont have time to argue with someone on the internet. You are reading into what im saying a lot and putting more value on my words than my itent. I never said that " Insisting that kids movies are actually for adults and not suitable at all just devalues animations potential as an adult medium to the people who don’t think it is."
What I meant by the when my friends ask if their kids should watch it I mean not alone, depends on the age. There's so much more nuance to what I am saying and you are twisting my words. So im done here. Im telling you while working on it there was no like "were making this for kids" We were making a story for all that parents might need to talk about some of the darker themes with their kids about.
But im not gonna talk with you when you nitpick and twist my words.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6jox59 wrote
I didn’t say you said that, I said the argument your making accomplishes that. It might be worth reading the points I’m actually making before saying I’m misunderstanding you.
There is nuance, but you can’t complain I’m missing the nuance in your position when you don’t understand what I’m saying, and making incredibly specific statements that remove and ignore nuance.
You cannot say I’m twisting words, when you tried to reframe my argument as something else, and completely twisted the literal director of the films words to pretend it’s not aimed at or suitable for children, when GDT has said he made sure it accommodated them. A family movie is a kids movie. It’s not a kids movie in the exact same way Paw Patrol is, but it is still one. I’m not sure what capacity you worked on it, but your mindset does not align with the creative mind behind it.
editordeb87 t1_j6k8v4f wrote
I am not arguing with you any more. They do align I promise, im just not gona spend hrs on the internet re-explaining myself to you. I probably shoulda said nothing in the first place. I never said it wasn't suitable for children, you are misunderstanding me and making statements off what you think im trying to say. Please stop and have a wonderful day.
Huevos___Rancheros OP t1_j6k9o2d wrote
There is no point in arguing with someone who says this movie is for kids. The director himself said that it wasn’t, that’s the end of the conversation right there.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6k9uf5 wrote
He said it wasn’t just for kids, not that it wasn’t for kids.
DoreenFromReddit t1_j6ljeea wrote
I'm just gonna jump in here it was fun reading that little exchange. But it seems like an interesting take that you would find that to be a kids movie after watching it. My wife and I both found it to be definitely not a kids movie. Either way it's interesting how we can all see things different ways and hopefully we can remember that we are on reddit talking about a movie.
editordeb87 t1_j6k9zu9 wrote
Thank you <3 I mean its for everyone. But def not something you have kids watch alone. It can create WONDERFUL conversations about life and death between kids ad their parents but would I say hey 4 year old timmy can watch this alone. No, I wouldnt.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6k9qy5 wrote
All the best.
0xF00DBABE t1_j6ip9yf wrote
I agree; I also think the portrayal of Mussolini was ridiculously comical and undermined any kind of serious critique of fascism. Similar problem to Jo-Jo Rabbit, in my view -- films that flirted with very serious themes but treated them in an irreverent way, leaving the audience with nothing deeper.
Ok-Survey-9077 t1_j6kbua7 wrote
It must be difficult to balance tackling fascism while remaining digestible for children, but I just don’t think it’s accomplished well at all.
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