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AMA_requester t1_j6b8b2n wrote

This is so fucking stupid. The writer thinks they're making this big expose on him mostly living in England. This is known, doesn't mean he doesn't understand the culture or have tethers to it, given both his parents are Irish.

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AlanMorlock t1_j6byqkg wrote

Also complaining his work doesn't reflect the modern country...when talking about period pieces.

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pollyfossil t1_j6f2mba wrote

But in what sense is the film a "period piece"? Making occasional off hand references to the Civil War doesn't make it a period piece. The film didn't set out to depict the period of the early 1920s and it certainly didn't reflect anything of the reality of life at that time. It is instead a collection of clichés. I've read the whole article and think the author is spot on.

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LukeKellysLoveChild t1_j6fau54 wrote

It's a period piece because it's set in an earlier historical period, that's what a period piece is.

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LukeKellysLoveChild t1_j6fb4ci wrote

Who's to say life wouldn't have been like that on Achill island then?

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pollyfossil t1_j6h7znj wrote

When you say life may have been "like that" what do you mean? People in picturesque tweeds strolling around spectacular landscapes accompanied by "miniature donkeys" and spending their disposable income in a cute "Irish pub"? Plenty of people know what life was like in the 1920s in remote parts of the west of Ireland - my father, for one. McDonagh would never claim to be offering an accurate depiction so it's pretty pointless to "defend" the film on that score. The author of the article refers to John Hinde postcards, and that is a pretty good visual reference for the film, which is not in any sense realistic.

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LukeKellysLoveChild t1_j6hoiau wrote

Yeah, they likely did wear tweed and spend a lot of time in the pub, try to remember it's a film. Something being a period piece simply means it's set in a certain time period. The help in Downtown Abbey probably wouldn't have been as well treated as they were in the series but it's a period piece all the same.

So your main gripes here are the 'picturesque' tweed and the fact they spent a lot of time in the pub. Okay.

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LukeKellysLoveChild t1_j6hp02e wrote

I'd be interested in knowing if there's any films set in Ireland you consider to be a good period piece. Have you ever watched the field? I'd also be interested in knowing if you're at all familiar with rural Ireland today.

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pollyfossil t1_j6huezb wrote

Yes, I've seen The Field. It's grand but not one of my favourite films. I think that the John B Keane play on which it's based is very good. I don't think there are lots of great examples of "period" films set in Ireland, but I haven't seen Black 47 and I heard that it's very good so I must check it out. (I still think that thinking of TBOI as primarily (?) a period film is fundamentally misguided by the way). I live in Ireland but not rural Ireland so I'm as familiar with rural Ireland as anyone else who lives in Ireland but not rural Ireland is. Answered all your questions now?

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LukeKellysLoveChild t1_j6fbj1m wrote

I think there's a tradition of music students coming to Achill island as well. The most unrealistic thing I found was the fact it never rained

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AlanMorlock t1_j6fnae9 wrote

Even wildly inaccurate period pieces are in fsgt period pieces by virtue of being set in the past. Not thst complicated.

I do think k attempt to read much about thr civil war are over stated. It's not really metaphorical in any way.

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pollyfossil t1_j6h7cgx wrote

Well, if you insist that it's a period piece then it's a really sad excuse for one because it makes no attempt to communicate anything about said period (especially if, as you appear to agree, the references to the Civil War make no difference to the story).

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AlanMorlock t1_j6h8894 wrote

I don't know man, I dont really expect any given western to be a grand statement on 19th Century America either, but I have a cultural understanding what a western town was like. Are either version of True Grit a lesser film for not reflecting yhe concerns of modern day Oklahoma?

The type of pastoral setting Banshees is set in similarly has a long literary tradition and a short handed understanding. The figure ofnthr pub dwelling sheep farmer tracks as aboutnas well as a cattle rancher Ina saloon.

Given those preunderstood elements and trappings, you can understand just how small the world is for the characters in Banhsees, and how the set thr conventionalized routines. Much of the drama is at root between someone who was happy living eseentisllyneithon thst cliche, and others frustrated by it or making choice to move beyond them.

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pollyfossil t1_j6ha6ht wrote

It wasn't me who started defending/ describing the film as a period piece. It's a dead end way of approaching it. Yes, you could compare it to a western in terms of settings and characters being archetypes as opposed to realistic - that's certainly closer to what McD is doing. But for me, they were less archetypes than really hollow and uninteresting stereotypes. I found the film incredibly shallow and dull. Much and all as I love Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson, I also didn't think much of their performances, which were both very one note (but not really their fault because the characters were one note). Bottom line, I hate McDonagh's shtick, and I think it is just shtick, and it's well discussed in the article. I know other people like the film and that's fine.

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Dottsterisk t1_j6c8k1b wrote

That’s only a very small part of this essay, which is very well written and covers quite a lot, incorporating a lot of Irish history and literary tradition.

It really shouldn’t be dismissed merely as someone calling out McDonagh for being raised in London.

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tormunds_beard t1_j6b2txm wrote

The author of this article was so far up their own ass they can use their ribcage for braces.

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HardensWeakChin t1_j6b40bu wrote

I wonder if he'd be insinuating the same stuff if two Mexican parents moved to the US, had a kid, spent a good amount of summers in Mexico with their kid, and that kid went on to write and direct movies about Mexican issues or the Mexican Revolution.

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-SneakySnake- t1_j6ba83e wrote

I grew up with the plays they're talking about, there's a point here. The overall argument is that McDonagh is still using the hoary old tropes and trappings that were considered tired a century ago. It's a matter of taste, really, it's a bit like a modern remix of that period of Irish canon. The author compares him to Tarantino and I'd argue that's a fair comparison because Tarantino does the same thing, taking old tropes and concepts, mixing them up, and adding his own sheen to them. Whether that's merely competent, or it elevates the material or it's complete hackery kinda depends on the individual.

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Dottsterisk t1_j6c8qa5 wrote

Yeah, kinda sad to see the sub dismiss this essay off a kneejerk reaction to the title and a single point in the first paragraphs.

It is, without doubt, one of the best critical examinations that I’ve read on this sub in a long time. The author clearly knows the Irish literary tradition very well and it’s fascinating to read about how McDonagh’s works fit into that history.

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pantaloonsofJUSTICE t1_j6b9d1y wrote

And what’s up with all these black Americans bringing their African roots to the screen. It’s all baloney!!!

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Archamasse t1_j6bar3p wrote

The article does have a sort of point - the civil war metaphor is completely incoherent imho, and it is bizarre to see it trotted out consistently without any examination.

The Irish Civil War was about as clear cut a conflict as a Civil War can get. It was rooted in a very stark and simple dilemma - take what you can get of your own state now, or hold out for all or nothing so nobody's left behind and nothing is compromised.

Treating it all as some sort of bewildering folly of whim is bizarre to Irish people when it's only just passing from living memory.

The tragedy of the war was that it was totally ideological - that's why it famously set brother against brother, because even after everything they'd all shared together, they both had reasons to fight for opposite sides. It wasn't like the English Civil War, where it was about allegiances, or the US Civil War where it was about states' rights to keep slaves - it was about what you, personally, thought.

It is not something that happened out of the blue or without explanation.

That said - I grew up in a small village, and Calvary is a fucking documentary. I don't think people would be as irritated to think McDonagh spent most of his life in England as they will be at "a load of Blarney".

Nobody considers Shane McGowan anything other than Irish and he was born in Kent.

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DeedTheInky t1_j6cfpgy wrote

I took it as a dig at the islanders - this big important thing is happening literally within earshot and nobody cares to even try and understand it, it's just this sort of bemusing bit of background scenery to them. Which is why the sister leaves, she's just had enough of their ignorance and nonsense.

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Particular-Court-619 t1_j6eiylc wrote

"the civil war metaphor is completely incoherent imho."

I feel like people expect the interpersonal conflict to perfectly track the nature of the civil war.

But that's just a weird imposition on the film, there's nothing in it that says 'you must read this interpersonal conflict as an exact allegory for the civil war.'

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riffraffbri t1_j6b41pr wrote

The Irish have always been famous for their wit and humor. One name that comes to mind, and had the gift of gab, was Oscar Wilde.

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Mikethebest78 t1_j6c1eiz wrote

When you hate McDonagh but will happily invoke his name if it drives traffic to your website.

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Gerti27 t1_j6dtf4d wrote

I hate critics like this. Everything has to be picked apart. At one point, he seems to take issue with a rainbow shown at the beginning of the film. The author believes this to be an intentional joke because the movie is so dark in theme. This is clearly a horrible offense because it is cliche.

He also makes the point that a lot of McDonagh’s movies use stereotypes. Maybe he’s right on this, I’m no expert on Irish stereotypes, but this just means that he’s no different than every writer in human history. There is not one book or movie that doesn’t use stereotypes or tropes in some way or another.

I don’t mind people looking at works of art deeper to try and convey more meaning to them, but I hate critics that have to give meaning to every possible little thing. It reminds me of self important art critics that will write books about how a red circle on a canvas represents the struggle of the common man. It’s just BS.

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pollyfossil t1_j6f3itd wrote

Far from trying "to give meaning to every possible little thing" I think his main complaint is that the film ultimately means very little. I found it completely tedious. I'm Irish so I should be thrilled that it's nominated for so many awards, but I'm not excited at all because I don't think it deserves the acclaim it's received.

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