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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2ase6i wrote

I wouldn't go that far. Die Hard was a rarity in that John McClane was an every day person. He wasn't some special forces, goes to the gym 6 times a week, knows 5 fighting styles and cooks too, kind of character like you see anymore. You had Murtagh in Lethal Weapon, and a few others but we have since migrated away from them. One other thing that set them apart from modern action stars is that they got FUCKED up. Most action movie characters get some soot on them, maybe a bleeding lip and some scrapes and scratches but that's about it. I always liked Die Hard because John got absolutely fucked but still kept going. I miss when action stars could get wrecked honestly. It felt more realistic and honestly made the characters more likable and you rooted for them more because you saw they weren't these impossible beings. I hope action gets back to that some day.

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Shafe1975 t1_j2atcf5 wrote

I still cringe when he gets glass in his feet

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Skirt_Thin t1_j2awn0z wrote

Interesting tidbit. They made special shoes that look like feet, so he could run through the glass without injury.

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maggoty t1_j2df0v7 wrote

I thought the glass was the fake rubber stuff that looks real.

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NinthConfiguration t1_j2auw4b wrote

Every time he takes his shoes and socks off to make fists with his toes I think "don't do it, you'll regret it!"

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marblecannon512 t1_j2c25rg wrote

Fists wit yer toes

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CxOrillion t1_j2dprqk wrote

Another thing: that whole fists with your toes thing was just invented as a plot device to get McClane to take off his shoes. But I've heard people actually reference it as a technique

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CrazyStar_ t1_j2e4jq1 wrote

I've seen the film about at least eight times but only on my most recent re-watch (this Christmas) did I connect what the fella said on the plane to why he is running around shoeless lol.

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waltdiesintheend t1_j2b1e39 wrote

My family will random shout “shoot the glass” at each other in our worst Alan Rickman voice. Just got a huge dose of it during the holidays lol.

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ScipioCoriolanus t1_j2bbz2b wrote

Schiess dem Fenster...

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Octavius-26 t1_j2bffvx wrote

SHOOT tha glassssss!

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King_Buliwyf t1_j2djhhf wrote

Why did he clarify his order by speaking English to a fellow German?

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Octavius-26 t1_j2dkkjn wrote

I have no idea… Karl seemed to have a WTF you talking about moment there…

Or Hans was just speaking shitty German…?

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redsoxsteve9 t1_j2dl78j wrote

I just figured Hans was strategizing and didn’t want John to know what he was saying to Karl. Then he switched back to English out of frustration/let the audience in on it.

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OzymandiasKoK t1_j2atzrb wrote

Glass? Who gives a shit about glass?

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StepYaGameUp t1_j2aw2pn wrote

Foreshadowing.

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OzymandiasKoK t1_j2b0ijj wrote

No, it's a reference.

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StepYaGameUp t1_j2b0pvx wrote

I know the line. I’ve seen the movie 100+ times.

When McClain delivers that line it’s foreshadowing to later in the film when HE has to care about glass. The glass blocking his way and in his foot.

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OzymandiasKoK t1_j2b0yln wrote

I know the line. I’ve seen the movie 100+ times.

When I delivered that line, it was a reference to when that happened.

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happylittletreehouse t1_j2au8rl wrote

This movie and Home Alone ( when Marv cuts his feet on the Christmas bulbs) always make me cringe.

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FormerIceCreamEater t1_j2bvxtm wrote

Marv was the victim in those movies.

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CheapLute t1_j2cu8s1 wrote

In the first one, sorta. He was still a thieving shit. In the second one, no. They were literally trying to kill Kevin, with Marv screaming at Harry to shoot him.

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aladdyn2 t1_j2b7ikb wrote

Actually that's one aspect of No Country for Old Men that makes it great to me. Both hero and villains get injured and most battles have real consequences for them.

Unpopular opinion maybe but I think almost all the superhero movies are boring because of the lack of this. Let them get injured and killed off game of thrones style. Then just reboot with different actors once you kill enough off. Or even the same actors but a different universe or something.

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TylerBourbon t1_j2b8a8h wrote

>Unpopular opinion maybe but I think almost all the superhero movies are boring because of the lack of this.

Completely agree with this. This is why the Daredevil season 1 hallway fight was so damn good. It was brutal, but you could see him getting hurt and getting tired. It made it believable. If they can't match that mentality when filming fights for the new DD series, it will be very disappointing.

I'm not so much on the "kill them off GoT" style but I would definitely love to see more shows have that "anything can actually happen" vibe that made GoT so engrossing. Characters lived and died based on their decisions, whether it was simply misplaced trust, or tactical errors.

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bc5xv wrote

Right? I think DC is the biggest culprit of this so far with Marvel quickly moving in. You watch Captain America: Winter Soldier, Tobey McGuire's fight with the Green Goblin, and Tom Holland's first fight with the Green Goblin, they get fucked up. I would say Cap gets it the worst out of the 3, considering he gets shot too, but they all get absolutely thrashed to the point they're barely holding it together. Anymore though, I can't really think of a Marvel hero who got it even half as bad. Chadwick Bosman from Black Panther, but...nope nothing else comes to mind.

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TylerBourbon t1_j2bepzw wrote

100% MCU was doing pretty decently with some of it's films from Iron Man 1 to Endgame. Characters got put through the ringer. And while I like the first 2 Nolan movies, the only one Batman even got hurt in was 3, but he it was more plot points to hurt him than just a by product of a brutal fight. At least with Pattinson's ending fight Batman nearly went down if it wasn't for what I suspect was venom but could have just been major steroids.

And Marvel is definitely moving away from realism it seems. Falcon and the Winter Soldier, did anyone even look tired after a fight, or like they broke a sweat? And Love and Thunder..... it was basically a Saturday Morning Cartoon when it came to Thor's fighting prowess, we were only missing him raising the hammer to the sky and yelling out that he had the power.

It's getting the point where it feels like the characters being tired or hurt is like a gun running out of ammo in an 80s action movie, only when the plot needs it to happen.

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bfre4 wrote

Yep. I genuinely can't bring myself to watch Love and Thunder past the one time. Marvel doesn't need to go to extremes but damn I would like the people to actually be people. That's what Marvel marketed their heroes as in the first place. Hopefully they swing things back the other way but I'm not holding my breath for it.

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jl_theprofessor t1_j2bm2a0 wrote

Man. Winter Soldier is still my favorite MCU movie.

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bov2y wrote

It is awesome. I love it. Perfect blend of funny and serious with some good dark in there too. I was hoping that would be Marvel going forward but sadly....

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IndyWineLady t1_j2bxfjc wrote

Sincerely, I screamed when Eddard Stark lost his head so early in.

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notorious98 t1_j2c3rk7 wrote

Daredevil's real super power is that he can take an unbelievable ass kicking and keeping fighting.

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jinxed_07 t1_j2dj52y wrote

I don't even think you need to kill off superheros, you just need to give them space to lose or get pyrrhic victories. All of Captain America's movies are great at this: Cap always gets a win (at least compared to the alternative playing out) but at a huge cost to himself or a large impact to the greater storyline.

If you know that the good guys are always gonna win with no serious consequences, then it makes you wonder why you should bother watching the same tropes play out over and over. I feel like a lot of the latest Marvel series/movies are suffering from this: not necessarily because the whole no consequences thing is new (because it's a valid criticism for some of the older marvel flicks) but because we're tired of it and we need a reason to watch something new.

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invaluableimp t1_j2au0kj wrote

John Wick gets beat to shit in every movie

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prima_facie2021 t1_j2awdfp wrote

Yes, but to OP's point, John Wick plays to type: in fact, one Russian guy once saw him kill a guy with a pencil. A pencil!

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doktor-frequentist t1_j2b5e1p wrote

Who does that...?

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bcpne wrote

A) John Wick is one of the aforementioned "impossible beings". B) I also stipulated "Most".

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PonchoMysticism t1_j2bpzt0 wrote

John wick isn't more impossible than John McClaine. There are extensive videos about the dozens of times the homie should have died in that movie.

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bqzee wrote

Show me where John McClain walks through a night club and bodies a dozen well trained body guards without a problem. Or where he does the same in catacombs, or where he straight up chews through entire groups of highly trained assassins with his bare hands/a pistol and maybe a sword or a knife.

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FormerIceCreamEater t1_j2bwc09 wrote

John McClain basically became John wick by the 4th one

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2bxk7l wrote

I'm not denying that. His character fell into the tropes that I'm decrying. But that's not what is being talked about, and debated here. We are talking about the first movie and only the first movie. I'm comparing Die Hard 1 (one) 1988 to modern action movies where the character is always some current or former special forces or super trained fighter of some sort, chewing through enemies like a bandsaw through paper with minimal injury.

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PonchoMysticism t1_j2c9nd9 wrote

He doesn't do either thing without "a problem" -- you have zero reason to believe they are well trained as there isn't any indication of their training. The club body guards are dummies and demonstrate that in the movie. That said I don't think something can be "more impossible" than something else. I'm pretty sure impossible is "binary."

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2cginm wrote

"zero reason to believe they are well trained"

Are you honestly putting forth the position, that one can't watch the tactical awareness, combat skills, hand/eye coordination, ability to plan and execute, not to mention pain tolerance and rationally infer that all that took decades of training to achieve? Or are you saying that anyone can do what John Wick does, with absolutely 0 training?

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PonchoMysticism t1_j2cpx6s wrote

You have zero reason to believe that rando muscle within a Russia mob family has "elite training."

This is the less important aspect of my argument. John Wick is in some ways more realistic and some ways less realistic than Die Hard however they are both entirely impossible or at the very least incredibly unlikely. Arguing that a movie is "more impossible" is like arguing that a sandwich is "more perfect." It's an on/off switch its either true or untrue. A scale of impossibility is silly.

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MrBojangoUnchained t1_j2cqyku wrote

I like John Wick but the action is highly stylised and over the top. He's basically Batman if he used guns.

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jinxed_07 t1_j2djpfk wrote

I feel like John Wick goes too far in the other direction: I enjoy watching a guy that gets some injuries but keeps on through determination and sheer will, but past a certain point, the damage should be too much and they should have to take time to get medical care and a considerable amount of time to heal. I think the John Wick sequels would be much better off if a lot more time had passed during them to reflect this.

This isn't to say I don't enjoy the John Wick films, but they really do strain the suspension of disbelief.

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KTR1988 t1_j2cojbx wrote

I honestly miss that about late 80s and early 90s action flicks. I was pretty characteristic of films of that era to end with the hero completely and utterly battered to within an inch of their life, limping away into the night or getting carried away on a stretcher. Made their victories seemed hard earned.

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notorious98 t1_j2c3lwa wrote

Have you seen Nobody?

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blackrabbitsrun t1_j2c4rop wrote

I have, decent movie. Still not John McClain. The guy in Nobody got fucked up because he held back. When he didn't, he tore through a Russian monster's organization like they were paper targets. Even handled being right up against a claymore fairly well. Was so frightening, people would rather bail without pay on a psychotic mob boss than be on his bad side.

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