Is it time to end RottenTomatoes?

Submitted by hasanahmad t3_11wrgm7 in movies

Rotten Tomatoes has been a popular website for movie reviews for many years, but it has also been a source of controversy and frustration for some fans and filmmakers. The site uses a Tomatometer score that aggregates the opinions of critics and an audience score that reflects the ratings of users who have seen the film. However, these scores are not always reliable or representative of the quality or diversity of opinions on a film.

One of the main problems with Rotten Tomatoes is that it reduces complex and nuanced opinions to a simple binary of fresh or rotten. A film can be rated fresh if it receives at least 60% positive reviews from critics, but this does not mean that all critics liked it or that it is a masterpiece. Conversely, a film can be rated rotten if it receives less than 60% positive reviews from critics, but this does not mean that all critics hated it or that it is a disaster. The same applies to the audience score, which is based on whether users rate a film 3.5 stars or higher out of 5.

Another problem with Rotten Tomatoes is that it can be manipulated by trolls and bots who want to sabotage or boost a film’s score for various reasons this happened to many films, which received negative comments and low ratings from users who had not seen them, but were motivated by political agendas, personal grudges, or fanboy wars. Rotten Tomatoes has tried to address this issue by disabling user comments before a film’s release date and verifying ticket purchases for user ratings, but these measures are not foolproof or comprehensive.

A third problem with Rotten Tomatoes is that it does not reflect the diversity and variety of perspectives on films from different cultures, backgrounds, genders, and experiences. The site relies mostly on critics from mainstream media outlets in North America, who tend to have similar tastes and preferences. This can create a disconnect between how critics view a film and how audiences from different regions and demographics view it. For example, some films may resonate more with audiences from certain countries or communities than with critics from another country or culture. Moreover, some critics may have biases or blind spots when reviewing films that deal with topics or themes that they are not familiar with or comfortable with.

These problems suggest that Rotten Tomatoes has served its course as a reliable indicator of movie quality and popularity. The site may have been useful in the past when there were fewer sources of information and opinions on films, but now there are many alternatives available online. Social media platforms such as Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok etc., allow users to share their views on films directly with each other without relying on intermediaries such as critics or websites. Users can also access more diverse and specialized sources of reviews such as blogs, podcasts, vlogs, forums, etc., that cater to their specific interests and tastes. These platforms and sources also enable users to engage in more meaningful and respectful discussions about films, rather than resorting to trolling or flaming.

Therefore, it is time to remove the relevance of Rotten Tomatoes and embrace the internet and social media as the new mechanisms for evaluating and appreciating films. The internet and social media offer more opportunities for users to discover new films, learn from different perspectives, and form their own opinions, rather than being influenced by a few set of people who control what people see and if they should. The internet and social media also allow users to celebrate the diversity and creativity of filmmakers and film lovers around the world, rather than being confined by the narrowness and homogeneity of mainstream critics and websites. The internet and social media are not perfect, but they are more democratic and dynamic than Rotten Tomatoes, which has become outdated and obsolete.

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DrRexMorman t1_jczfs0j wrote

>Is it time to end RottenTomatoes?

It might be time for you to stop using Rotten Tomatoes.

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TheTurtleShepard t1_jczk6dj wrote

Yeah, it’s really that simple.

I don’t like how rotten tomatoes works so guess what, I just don’t use it. I really couldn’t give less of a shit how anyone else decides to use the website

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twfilms t1_jczh8ec wrote

This sub’s obsession with RT (usually paired with a fundamental misunderstanding of how it actually works) borders on the psychotic.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczhdnb wrote

obsession in favor of or against? because the visceral reaction to an opinion shows it seems to be only in favor of lol

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Dottsterisk t1_jczicag wrote

The reaction you’re getting is in response to your suggestion that Rotten Tomatoes needs to be ended, not that it’s a garbage metric.

I’m content just to ignore it.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczikhn wrote

it needs to be ended as the barometer because outside of this sub and other movie forum, outside the celebrity and movie forum bubble, the score is the barometer for people. a yes or no. we movie aficionados apply nuance, they don't. But their $ make or break a movie, ours doesnt

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official_bagel t1_jczos64 wrote

I don't think this really true. There are plenty of films that "scored" poorly on Rotten Tomatoes and went on to gross huge amounts and plenty more that "scored" highly and grossed peanuts.

Even if this was true, Rotten Tomatoes is literally just a review aggregator so your argument would condense down to "should we eliminate movie critics completely?"

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BanterDTD t1_jczhi3a wrote

> Therefore, it is time to remove the relevance of Rotten Tomatoes and embrace the internet and social media as the new mechanisms for evaluating and appreciating films.

Oof. Last thing I want to discuss, and or listen to is a bunch of people on Twitter being tastemakers for the film industry.

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LikeRegularChicken t1_jczijlw wrote

Use letterboxd and curate it so that you only see the opinions of people you trust, problems solved.

Talking of needing to "end" websites you don't personally like is pretty silly, even as clickbait.

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NKevros t1_jczh5rk wrote

Review aggregation websites in general will provide a decent barometer of how "good " something is but there is always nuance after that. You have to use that brain of yours and not just follow the scores.

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fergi20020 t1_jczuxyw wrote

It only gives a score with 5 or more reviews. Films like Some Like it Hot are stuck with score because they have fewer than 5 reviews. That one has just 1 review.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczhjg6 wrote

if only most movie goers thought this way, I would agree. we enable them being too aloof by accepting them taking score at face value. every. single. time.

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NKevros t1_jczjcfp wrote

I don't personally care about how other people spend their time though

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczjifu wrote

the people outisde the bubble are what $make or break movies$

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Global_Mandemic t1_jczkuso wrote

I know my own movie-watching behavior changed a lot of with RT. I'd avoid any movie that had less than a certain score and gravitate to the ones that had a higher score.

I can see how a movie having a shitty RT score could be impactful to the film makers.

I don't use RT so much anymore (avoid a lot of reviews, honestly) because it killed the fun for me. I'd rather discover my love for a movie than have my expectations set up front.

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DarwinEvolved t1_jczjxh3 wrote

What do you suggest people watch? Best your a DC fan.

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GrimReaperAngelof23 t1_jczmrmk wrote

Whats wrong with DC?

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DarwinEvolved t1_jczn0mh wrote

Nothing, I enjoy DC, but big DC fans don't like the RT scores which are usually lower than Marvel. Either way, the whole post has Chat GPT written all over it .

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GrimReaperAngelof23 t1_jczzj3h wrote

Oh yeh RT sucks. I just watch movies and judge for myself. I don't listen to critics or online sites on what to watch and not watch

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HOBTT27 t1_jczj7at wrote

Holy smokes. It’s just a website to help consumers quickly discern whether or not a movie sucks & to click a link or two, to a full review from a professional critic, if they want further analysis.

Why are so many movie fans investing their hearts & souls into this very simple, consumer education website? You’re still allowed to like Batman vs Superman or whatever goddamn movie you’re butthurt about, regardless of what the little cartoon tomatometer says.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczjmr0 wrote

thats true if mainstream movie goers apply your nuance to decision making. They don't. Their barometer is the score only

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HOBTT27 t1_jczliro wrote

People want to quickly know if something is worth their time & money. RT allows them to quickly get a sense of what the professionals think: “84% of the critics said this was worth my time & money? Cool, that’s a solid number; I’ll consider checking it out this weekend.”

It’s that simple.

I get it: you’re likely upset that the snobby critics thumbed their nose at some movie you really liked. It sucks when people hate on something that’s special to you; I get that. But it only sucks for like one second; then you can close out of the tab & never think about it again.

In time, you’re going to realize that it doesn’t matter what a cartoon tomato bar on the internet says about a piece of art you like. What resonates with you is all that matters.

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DarwinEvolved t1_jczjqzt wrote

Was this written by ChatGPT?

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Marshall_Lawson t1_jczx4hg wrote

I'm starting to get used to the dry yet accessible writing style of chatgpt as well as its paragraph length and conclusion paragraphs. on top of that, compare the original post to the writing style of the op's other comments, and I think you might very well be right.

also a lot of the op's recent activity is on chatgpt and bing subs.

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DarwinEvolved t1_jczye1f wrote

I checked OPs history after I posted this and it basically confirmed it.

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Marshall_Lawson t1_jczyw3v wrote

Yeah i try not to go to user history first, but once I saw it that sealed it for me.

In any case, i was already pretty sure. most people have characteristic mannerisms in their writing, even if they're being very dry and formal there will be something, and chatgpt has none. it's statistically driven to the most generic possible response. Becomes pretty easy to spot once you get used to it.

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DarwinEvolved t1_jczydbp wrote

I checked OPs history after I posted this and it basically confirmed it.

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tinoynk t1_jczhfiv wrote

Problem 1 is not a problem with RT, it's a problem with the people unable to wrap their brain around what a RT% actually is, or if they do understand what it is can't figure out how to apply that information to their movie-choosing.

As far as the trolls/bots, it's no more susceptible to this than any other platform, and the fact the main metric is the Critics Rating means all you need to do is ignore audience score for any popular movie with a prominent minority/woman since it will inevitably get review-bombed by the alt-right.

The third problem is again, not a problem with RT, just a reflection of the fact that most popular mainstream cinema is focused around American movies.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczhqgx wrote

agree. the problem is people are always told not to take the score as face value but they do. they have a tool but don't apply nuance towards it. Maybe we should not rely on the tool anymore is my point.

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tinoynk t1_jczjahp wrote

I mean if somebody tries to use a hammer to slice a block of cheese, that's not the hammer's problem.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczje1x wrote

do you apply the same principles to guns?

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tinoynk t1_jczk3ex wrote

The purpose of a gun is murder. The fact guns are used for murder isn't a shocker.

The shocker is that half the government gets paid so much by the NRA that they're happy to make the yearly sacrifice of dozens of innocent people, often children, just to keep that paycheck.

If people were using firearms to fasten nails, now that'd be interesting.

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Alive_Ice7937 t1_jczwc96 wrote

>If people were using firearms to fasten nails, now that'd be interesting.

Some sort of "nail gun"?

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meowskywalker t1_jczhfmh wrote

Rottentomatoes is the best because the one question you should be asking a critic: “Is this movie worth spending my time and money on?” is the only question that rottentomatoes answers. “71 percent of critics believe that, yea, it is worth spending your time and money on.” That’s all you get from them.

“Is it the greatest movie this year? Is is barely worth watching?” These are questions you need to answer for yourself. Critics can’t tell you that. They can’t even really tell you if you yourself will agree with their assessment that the movie is worth your time and money. That’s why collecting so many is great.

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hasanahmad OP t1_jczi02e wrote

the general movie goer sees the score as the barometer, nothing else. outside this subreddit and other movie forums, thats the reality outside the bubble, RT score is what forms their opinion. the tool facilitates this this behavior, we know better, movie goers don't. Which is why many movie goers often have wrong impression and don;t see movies which are good and go see movies which are bad

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meowskywalker t1_jczk92q wrote

It doesn’t matter. None of this matters. Transformers movies got terrible terrible reviews and were all incredibly popular. All the Twilight movies got horrendous reviews, quite popular. People are gonna like what they like, and the idea that they can be convinced by a number on rottentomaotes is ridiculous.

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LittleBuffBoys t1_jczq9m2 wrote

Pretty certain OP used chatGPT to write this, it just reads and is structured exactly like an AI argument. So why bother discussing it's content.

Edit: After checking their profile, this is 100% chatGPT. Don't waste your time arguing with chatGPT through a lonely redditor.

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Sakugains t1_jczh2o3 wrote

I'm not sure I understand your your solution. Rotten tomatoes is social media. Obviously if you want a nuanced option you will need to read lots of different viewpoints and opinion, but that isn't really the intention of a rotten tomatoes score. There is definitely room for improvement, but I don't think the solution is removing the option of having a quick simple gauge of how well received the movie is and if you want to get a more nuanced opinion that option is still open to you.

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crazy2bob t1_jczpeih wrote

You keep saying in replies that the general public doesn’t use RT for more than a barometer for their decisions and They’re not deep diving into reviews by critics they share personal taste with, they’re not looking for more diverse opinions.

What makes you think they’ll use social media to search out the things you’d say they’re not doing already? They don’t want to search it out. They want to see what the mainstream public and critics think.

As for trolls and review bombing, social media can be manipulated the exact same way, it not worse.

Also, if RT goes away, they’ll just use another similar review type site for their barometer. Most people don’t deep dive into movies like that.

People who want more diverse opinions will search them out.

The solution to your problem is that RT needs a more diverse critic lineup and to include more diverse things in their ratings.

Why reinvent the wheel when a bearing is squeaking? Just fix the squeaky bearing…

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QuintoBlanco t1_jd16635 wrote

While you are at it, can you please end the war in Ukraine and world hunger?

Also what do you think of I'm Thinking of Ending Things and Howard's End? And what about Avengers: Endgame?

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Vivid-Mammoth-4161 t1_jczi92n wrote

in the end, the tomatometer is pretty accurate according to my experience

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Diska_Muse t1_jczk3cl wrote

I give this thread 1 Star out of 100.

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VanSnugglepusstheIII t1_jczksis wrote

Feels like you got beef with rotten tomatos. They are trash for sure but this feels personal.

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NGNSteveTheSamurai t1_jczrkln wrote

Man people care way too fucking much about movie scores here. I’ve seriously never once in my life let a score or review stop me from seeing something I wanna see. Can you not make decisions for yourself?

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Aggravating-Assist18 t1_jczz8ym wrote

Is this a retorical question? If not then, I can make decisions for myself and the decision I made for myself is I don't want to watch every single movie I find remotely interesting, there's way too many movies to do that. Only watching the ones I find remotely interesting that are high rated narrows down my options. People say I shouldn't listen to reviews but those same people (particularly my friends) have recommended movies to me, listening to an audience score is the same as listening to a friend's recommendation to me because it's not like my friend necessarily has the same interests when it comes to movies as I do but a thousand+ people has more of a chance of having similar interests

I just want to mention that I stopped using rotten tomatoes because IMDB and letterbox allow me to get a better understanding if a movie is "good" or not

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SoftPois0n t1_jczue7a wrote

This is what happens when corporation takes over fan loved websites, the same thing kinda happened with metacritic and IMDB easily manipulated reviews and critics scores.

Hence users started shifting to other websites, like backlogg, Just watch, SIMKL.

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Strong_Comedian_3578 t1_jd0dgbe wrote

If there was no fool-proof way to tell the entire population whether or not they will enjoy a certain movie, please let me know. If not, just use your favorite site and figure out what your cut-off line is.

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MondoUnderground t1_jczovh8 wrote

Social media is the last thing I'd use when looking for takes and opinions on movies. I don't think there's any movie that's not deemed "sooo CRINGE!!" or "problematic..." by those freaks.

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Reasonable-HB678 t1_jczskyv wrote

I remember the minor controversy when Get Out's perfect Rotten Tomatoes score was voided when the review by contrarian critic Armond White was added. It proves not everyone loves (or is going to love) a "Certified Fresh" movie. And anything that gets a rotten green symbol isn't a movie that everyone is going to hate. In a way, it's taken too seriously, because I still remember old fashioned newspaper/magazine movie and TV show reviews. On some occasions, critics and mass audiences are on the same page with critical raves and excellent box office or viewership. But there's definitely an underlying issue when there's a higher RT critics score and an low/average RT audience score.

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Alive_Ice7937 t1_jczvk8m wrote

Spot the DC_Cinematic poster.

That sub will turn your brain into a rotten tomato dude.

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Aggravating-Assist18 t1_jczwv3d wrote

What do you mean "end" like take down the site completely or encourage others to stop using it and use a different method to determine if they should watch a movie instead?

I use IMDB, if I was in your position (meaning I agreed with you and didn't think people should use rotten tomatoes) would you say I should encourage people to use IMDB instead?

We can't really "end" rotten tomatoes, only encourage people to use it less but even if we do that people are still going to use it if they think it's helpful

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Jaxdoesntsuck t1_jczx3s6 wrote

I prefer Tomatometer to the metacritic score. Knowing whether a critical mass of critics at least LIKED a movie is much more useful to me than a score of 65 on metacritic or whatever.

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Pretend_Pension_8585 t1_jd07dct wrote

the most valuable thing about Rottentomatoes is the difference in critic and user score. It tells you everything you need to know about what kind of movie it is and what you can expect from it. With the notable exception of big franchises like Marvel or Star wars where critics are afraid to speak their mind for obvious reasons.

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GlamoReloaded t1_jd07pju wrote

OP: "Social media platforms such as Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok etc., allow users to share their views on films directly with each other without relying on intermediaries such as critics or websites."

Now it's clear what you want: pure PR and crazy people interacting with each other. And suddenly these "social media platforms" are no websites or what does "without relying on intermediaries such as (...) websites" mean??

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willrsauls t1_jd0b5t5 wrote

Every critic could give a movie a 6/10 and Rotten Tomatoes will say it’s a 100%

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Suiram91 t1_jd1yyep wrote

So what you're basically saying is end the freedom of speech more or less.

I know RT scores are not always accurate but after all everybody is entitled to an opinion and it's your call if you want to watch that movie or not.

It's that simple.

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bcraig8870 t1_jd8412a wrote

It’s only controversial and frustrating to people too dumb to comprehend that a 90% score doesn’t mean the average reviewer’s rating is a 9/10.

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Jerrymoviefan3 t1_jd0ehg0 wrote

I visit the far more useful Metacritic probably a thousand times more often a year than RT so it hardly matters if that nearly useless web site disappears.

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Narrow-Tour1071 t1_jd1v3ku wrote

Could not agree with you more. I have noticed absolute garbage films are getting great reviews lately. I have lost all trust in the way they give out scores. Are they on the Payroll?

We need a modern day Siskel and Ebert who are not in the pockets of the industry.

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