At what point is a spoiler no longer required to be kept under wraps?

Submitted by microwavedhottakes t3_11e3685 in movies

Inspired by a discussion in another sub. At what point does a spoiler no longer need to be hidden/ flagged?

I don't have a firm answer, but I do think there comes a point where spoilers are free to be openly discussed. No one is crying "spoilers" over Rosebud being the name of the sled anymore.

Perhaps there isn't a fixed timeframe, and it depends on the cultural significance of the film and the impact on the plot. What are other people's thoughts?

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aitrus15 t1_jac6uu6 wrote

I've always thought flagging spoilers was good manners, regardless of how old something is. Lots of people I know wouldn't know what Rosebud is and I would hate to ruin the movie for them.

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DeepSave t1_jacmcfn wrote

This is my answer for life and I will gladly die upon this hill.

The assumption that everyone has seen the movies you've seen is really fucking weird. There are young, healthy, sapient, literate humans scrawling the internet every day that have no idea what happens in <your favorite movie from the 70s, 80s, or 90s> and it's weird that you would include those people in your arbitrary spoiler timer. Why punish 15 year olds for not being up to date with all of your favorite 30 year old movies?

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MutantLeader t1_jacyn0y wrote

Exactly. This comes up with comic books all the time, too. A lot of heartless people just assume that new stories are fair game after a few months. Meanwhile there are new readers every day, looking back and discovering everything for the first time.

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the_original_Retro t1_jacb0pt wrote

100%

It takes two extra seconds to add a spoiler tag inside a comment, and less than one extra second to avoid including them in the title of a post... and the latter is really kind of disappointing when you're subscribed and a spoiler title comes up on your feed, you read it, and then you can't unsee it.

I just wish Reddit had a consistent spoiler tag option across all subs.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac7a8i wrote

I agree, definitely it's good manners when in a conversation with someone. And I would always clarify in a conversation whether someone had seen something before discussing spoilers.

My question arose from spoilers in online discussions and articles, where rules of discourse are a bit different. Or do you think the same argument applies?

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Dottsterisk t1_jace97q wrote

I’d say the same argument applies.

The age of the movie doesn’t matter as much as it’s pop culture ubiquity. Because the movie might be 50 years old, but every day there’s some kid turning 15-16 who is just now old enough to see the movie for the first time. They didn’t drag their feet and miss the bus, they just weren’t born yet.

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ChiltonGains t1_jacqk0n wrote

Knowing that Rosebud is the name of his sled doesn't ruin anything.

Feels very weird to get downvoted for this correct and true statement.

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Jamonyourface16 t1_jac6aty wrote

Spoilers are spoilers. Don't spoil things for people.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac6ysl wrote

So you think it's still reasonable to flag spoilers for a movie like Fight Club?

To be clear, I'm not referring in person conversations here, more online discussions and articles.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jac7fxf wrote

yes. seeing as not everyone has watched it. if theres a potential twist or something in a film give a spoiler warning

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ThirdOfTheStorms84 t1_jac8214 wrote

As someone that has never seen Fight Club, my view would be that something in the title should be spoiler free so I didn’t get spoilt just browsing Reddit in general, but the thread itself I would expect spoilers at this point without it explicitly being mentioned there are.

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Thats_Cannon t1_jacdrb7 wrote

Yes, it takes little to no time to do and is courteous.

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Greedy-Loss9030 t1_jac74tw wrote

I say once a spoiler has become part of pop-culture. Like the big secret of The Crying Game which no one could shut up about back then, despite critics appeals to discretion. A better example is the "I am your father" quote from The Empire Strikes Back which has become so embedded in pop-culture to the point where people who haven't seen the film will know what you're talking about.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac7hh3 wrote

I do like the "until it becomes a meme" measure of time. Some things never reach that status, so should always be flagged.

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OlynykDidntFoulLove t1_jadyybm wrote

Then again we also get major plot points turned memes immediately these days, like Avengers: Infinity War had snap memes everyone the same day it came out.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jac7dd3 wrote

i see it like this. just because a film has been out for years doesnt mean everyone has seen it. so dont spoil the film if you can help it.

i see zero reason to go out ya way to spoil something.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jacaep7 wrote

I agree that going out of your way to spoil something is a dick move.

But I feel like there needs to be a point where the burden of avoiding spoilers falls on the person who doesn't want something they haven't seen to be spoiled.

Like if I post an article or thread about Fight Club now, I shouldn't have to flag spoilers - if you're clicking then you probably know the movie and are coming for discussion about it, and should expect that spoilers might be unflagged.

On the other hand, it's reasonable that discussion around a movie like Knock at the Cabin should still have spoiler tags, because people are coming to articles and threads looking for opinions on whether the movie is worth seeing, not plot discussion.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacbku4 wrote

well yeah if you havent seen a film then its your own fault for reading stuff about it. however my point is if youre writing on say reddit about a film just put a spoiler tag so no one who hasnt seen it doesnt glance at something they dont want to see.

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GMW-5610 t1_jacb46l wrote

Being on the internet and complaining about spoilers for old stuff is like joining a book club and asking everyone to be silent for 60 minutes because you didn't read the book.

It's on you. If you can't deal with it leave the room and don't have the arrogance to expect the world to adapt their conversation to your ignorance.

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Dottsterisk t1_jacej6g wrote

That’s a horrible analogy.

Your example would line up better with someone actively clicking into an official discussion thread for a movie and then asking people to not talk about the movie.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacbujs wrote

hahaha not at all. just because myself or someone else is on the INTERNET doesnt give you or others carte blanche to post endless spoilers of films online.

like if i was in a room with people and they started talking about a film i didnt want spoiled sure if i can leave i will but if for some reason i could then they could OH I DUNNO just not talk about it. pretty fucking simple.

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DonnieFaustani t1_jacsoop wrote

The concept of spoiling a story is both silly and not that old. Like what, should I put spoiler warnings when discussing Shakespeare's work or when discussing Greek classics? Can I not discuss mythologies without putting a spoiler warning? Where does it end with you people? Do you think anyone back then cared about "spoilers"?

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GMW-5610 t1_jacc5l9 wrote

Your English is so bad it's hard to understand. Like, dude, 10 lines and not a single period or comma 💀

Anyway,

>like if i was in a room with people and they started talking about a film i didnt want spoiled sure if i can leave i will

Exactly! There is a red X button on the top corner of your browser. Fixed the spoiler problem for you.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacct8b wrote

ok you got me. wow i didnt use more commas so you must be right about this spoiler thing then. fucking dumb ass.

why is it that people on reddit when they have fuck all to add go after something so small like that.

Bet it makes you feel so smart.

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GMW-5610 t1_jacdaut wrote

I complain only when I struggle to actually understand the point being made. I replied to what I think is your point in the second half of the comment, so stop whining.

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Many-Outside-7594 t1_jack7n8 wrote

Context is key.

If we are in the official discussion thread and the movie is currently out, all bets are off.

If we are in just about any other thread, spoiler tags should be applied.

Old movies with incredibly famous spoilers (Citizen Kane, Planet of the Apes) are a grey area IMO.

But spoilers should never be in the title, and after that it's context and judgement.

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ItsPennAgain t1_jac9vrd wrote

Spoiler tags are just respectful to do. I didn’t know the spoiler you included in your post, and i’m sure many others haven’t yet as well, even from something as popular or known as >!Citizen Kane!<.

Just because people are in different moments of their cinema journey, doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve unspoiled films.

In delegated threads, it’s understandable that there should be potential spoilers, but they give people a choice to see them or not. Just bringing it up in unrelated conversations doesn’t give people the option to decide to read it or not, which is why spoiler warnings is just common decency in that situation.

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ChiltonGains t1_jacqbsk wrote

Counterpoint: I think it's selfish to ask everyone to cater to spoilerphobes.

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ItsPennAgain t1_jacvfoq wrote

Counter-Counterpoint: I just said it’s common decency. You can be an arsehole all you want, nobody’s stopping you.

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Butch_Beth t1_jadkqfy wrote

If you can't talk about film/media/art without pop culture references, you might not really have anything to say.

More generally, I think the internet has spaces where you can say and do whatever you want and they are the worse places online. You need some level of self moderation, It is good to think of the person on the other side of the keyboard.

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ChiltonGains t1_jadps9d wrote

It’s the extreme spoilerphobes who need moderation.

I’m very sorry, but once something becomes part of the shared pop culture it’s fair game. Nobody gets to be mad about knowing that Bruce Willis was dead at the end of Sixth Sense or that Soylent Green is people.

The kind of deference that they’re asking for is unreasonable.

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Butch_Beth t1_jae1b0g wrote

I think that kinda of adversarial attitude, the one where you can say what you want and everyone else needs to shut up and take it, is toxic. It's what social media algorithms promote, argument = engagement, but it's always why people log off and don't come back.

You can be that person if you want, but at some point you're all that will be left.

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ChiltonGains t1_jaezkss wrote

I just think some folks need to calm down about spoilers, man.

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mrnonotes t1_jac5ryn wrote

Once it is part of general culture it's fair game, like Rosebud or Keyser Soze or the end of Anna Karenina. Even if something has been out for a while, if it's not part of general culture, like The Handmaiden, I'd says spoil warnings should be used

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac63uh wrote

This feels reasonable to me.

Like once something reaches meme/ quotable status gloves are of. If it's been around for a while but it's pretty niche, probably need the spoiler warning still.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jac7iqc wrote

no its still a spoiler. not EVERYONE is part of meme culture. whatever the fuck that means.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac9p24 wrote

So if a spoiler is always a spoiler regardless of cultural spread, do you take umbrage to all the "No, I am your father" references that have appeared over the years?

I was referring to the idea of certain cultural references growing beyond their source material (I think calling this a meme is still accurate, but to the idea of an internet meme).

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacbd4s wrote

my point is if you can avoid spoiling something for someone then avoid it. you seem to WANT to spoil things for people and youre wanting others to tell you its ok to do so.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jacbwgt wrote

My goal in starting this thread was to see whether people thought there was any nuance to the argument of flagging/ not flagging spoilers. Your opinion seems to be fairly black and white, which is your right.

Nowhere have I advocated intentionally spoiling things for people.

Edit: just saw your other reply. Feels like we're more or less on the same page.

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andrewta t1_jac7tuo wrote

Once the average person knows about it then a spoiler is no longer needed.

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Sweet_Charming82 t1_jacyguk wrote

I'm over the 'spoiler' thing. on Youtube videos, it was such a big thing in those early mid 2000s time frame. now it's so sarcastic and obnoxious. if the person DOESN'T want to be spoiled by a film, don't actively watch a video talking about said movie.

From a general audience mindset, after about a month, everyone who has wanted to see the film has taken the time to see it. If a person hasn't seen the film by the time it leaves theaters all together, they don't care. Is it good form to ask if it's ok to talk about a film in front of someone who hasn't seen it, sure...but I just think this idea of restricting a discussion for someone else when they've haven't seen the film is ridiculous. I don't care about spoilers though. I'm not a fan of 'subverting expectations' and want to know what I'm getting into. It's watching the journey unfold that is the draw of the film for me.

I don't go around shouting rando plot points around in public for the sake of ticking people off. but don't interrupt a conversation I'm having with someone because you chose not to see a movie 3 years after it came out.

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Butch_Beth t1_jadm9xq wrote

> If a person hasn't seen the film by the time it leaves theatres all together, they don't care.

That's really easy to say, but here in the UK a films release can be delayed by months, in other countries it can be much worse, especially if it's got to be translated. I've had stuff spoiled for me this way and I watch 100's of films a year, I actually don't generally care about spoilers either, but it still sometimes leaks through.

When I talk about film I tend not to talk about the details of the plot, mainly because when I start reading a review that's just a detailed summery, I stop, because it's not interesting. Outside of that I think pop culture references are kinda dying, the contexts you can use them in are increasingly limited and there's just less and less stuff that 'everyone' has seen. Right now there isn't a Game of Thrones level thing to spoil, so the conversation seems a little redundant. But just referencing things that need a spoiler kinda still seems childish.

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GeronimoSonjack t1_jacdld2 wrote

Spoilers are always relative to the particular viewer. A warning costs nothing, there is no statute of limitations.

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Onepunchmanworkout t1_jadcf8n wrote

Unpopular opinion: I don't really care about spoilers. To me, finding out how a magician does a trick doesn't take away from the magic of them doing it, it just makes me watch closer.

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Unnamedgalaxy t1_jadvxtv wrote

When the thing is popular enough to be a pop culture moment. If the vast majority of people have seen something I feel like they shouldn't have to continually tip toe around open discussions just in case some random straggler just happens to pass by. We shouldn't have to tip toe around the possibility that some random person hasn't seen a 5, 10, 30 year old movie.

I also think context is important. Is it a new movie and your on a discussion board dedicated to talking about the film? I don't think spoiler warnings should apply. If you haven't seen a movie that's actively new and you intentionally go into a discussion about said movie then whatever you read is on you.

Is it a new movie but your on a board that doesn't have anything to do with the movie then take the time to add a warning.

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gtaguy75 t1_jacbelt wrote

One year seems okay

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Deckard_Red t1_jaccwca wrote

Forever, spoilers are always spoilers, thanks for ruining Citizen Kane for me 😉

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TrinityTen t1_jacfy05 wrote

when you guessed the ending of the book and the entire class hated you for the rest of the year

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Billythehat721 t1_jackvd9 wrote

Dude i was just getting around to watching citizen Kane and now you ruined it

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Butch_Beth t1_jadjah4 wrote

I think you should just be careful and only 'spoil' when you've got something to say. So many times I've started reading a review and it's just a summery of the plot of the film, there's nothing in that, it's pointless.

More generally I think it's about context, you should be able to express your opinion about something without a dozen pop culture references, you should be able to say 'this is like what happens in X movie,' without having to spoil either piece of media. Also, while right now everything knows of something like the Thanos Snap, in 10 or 20 years there will be an entire audience of young people who don't.

Just be courteous, you don't know someone's situation or how important spoilers are to them.

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solo13508 t1_jaeeym5 wrote

When something comes out on a streaming service: couple days

When something comes out in a movie theater: a week

Just my opinion of course

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twfilms t1_jacurb4 wrote

Never. Doesn’t matter how old or culturally ubiquitous a film becomes, someone reading your post or comment or whatever hasn’t seen it and deserves not to have it spoiled.

If you’re writing a spoiler, tag it. Always. No exceptions.

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RollaCoastinPoopah t1_jadglg8 wrote

Tough one. There are plenty of adult sized toddlers who feel as though their lives have been ruined if the have anything from a movie spoiled, who then spend weeks on edit complaining that their movie going experience was ruined and that they wish the were able to erase all knowledge of any spoilers, go back in time, and watch the movie.

Then, on the other hand, there’s plenty of adult sized adults who read the leaks and watch the spoiler YouTube clips etc. and then go and watch that movie and enjoy it regardless.

Lastly, there are the adult sized adults who couldn’t give two shits about either, who just go and watch the movie.

It’s a delicate balance on a very thin line…

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MrTeeTee23 t1_jac56fj wrote

I give a month post release, before i start to talk all things movie related (spoilers etc) online

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ingloriousbaxter3 t1_jac4tz2 wrote

Personally I feel like if something has been available to the public for two weeks it’s fair game.

I don’t intentionally spoil things if I know someone doesn’t want to know, but I think it’s a dick move to expect the rest of the world to cater to you if you’re just putting off watching something.

If something is so important that learning things about it will enrage you, then you have a responsibility to see it in a timely manner

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Sweet_Charming82 t1_jacyonj wrote

I knew opinions like this were going to get downvoted. Can't wait to see what I get. but I 100% agree. 2 weeks might be a little early. but a month in, 3 months in and the movie is leaving theaters? if you didn't take/find the time to go, that's on you.

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ingloriousbaxter3 t1_jacz39n wrote

I honestly think at this point it’s less about having a movie “spoiled” and just more about people being control freaks.

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GMW-5610 t1_jac50fv wrote

Couple of weeks.

You had the time to watch it but didn't, ao you lose your right to complain about spoilers.

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microwavedhottakes OP t1_jac6qh6 wrote

But not everyone has the free time to watch something within the first weeks of release.

Not saying that gives them the right to get angry of something gets spoiled, but intentionally spoiling things that are still super fresh seems inconsiderate to me.

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Emeryb999 t1_jacw036 wrote

If someone cares that much about a spoiler, they should know to either get to the movie quickly or avoid the obvious places it will be spoiled.

I think the best courtesy is to keep spoilers out of things like post titles on reddit for a long time/maybe indefinitely.

I personally don't care about being spoiled, so that's where my motivation comes from lol. I have either forgotten spoilers or enjoyed movies that have been spoiled every time.

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koberulz_24 t1_jacwh3x wrote

Heck, where I am Aftersun is only just starting to hit cinemas.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jac7jrr wrote

this has to be the dumbest take ever.

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GMW-5610 t1_jac8dca wrote

Buddy, you can't block public discourse about art because one dude in the room didn't watch the movie.

I see people bitching about Citizen Kane spoilers and I'm like, how out of touch and entitled can you be.

It's your job to be updated, the world is not gonna stop for you.

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Dottsterisk t1_jaceymd wrote

Lol

What a faux tough guy response. The victimhood is off the charts.

Asking people to politely hide spoilers online is equivalent to “blocking public discourse on art”? Are you applying for a job with Tucker Carlson or something?

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacb6zn wrote

wow did you miss the whole fucking point of what i said. i bet youre the type to talk really loud outside the cinema so others will be spoiled

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GMW-5610 t1_jacbl8v wrote

You didn't say anything lol, you just said "bad take". What's even the point you made?

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Dottsterisk t1_jaconqz wrote

It’s a 17-day-old troll account.

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HEHEHO2022 t1_jacueut wrote

im no ive been on reddit for a while bud so im not a "troll"

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Dottsterisk t1_jacx45p wrote

Not you, dude. The redditor obviously dropping bait.

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