TheFoxer1 t1_je4op6s wrote on March 29, 2023 at 12:07 PM

Reply to comment by FinancialArmadillo93 in Klan Pamphlet from 1924 by AssumptionWinter4442

What are you talking about here?

Your comment is just so weird and misses the actual historical context by so much that I don’t even know where to begin.

The Klan didn‘t burn witches.

More Men were burnt for Witchcraft than women in the Northern Europe, while more women were persecuted in Southern Europe. It has never really been a thing that women get prosecuted for witchcraft but men don‘t.

Prosecution for Witchcraft also wasn‘t really a religious thing, since the Church hated it and condemned it, but rather a reaction to colder climates and shortages and the mistrust that followed - it‘s telling that most people executed for being witches were wealthy and old. And while it was framed around beliefs of devilworship and Christian belief, that was certainly not the cause, but only the attempt of legitimization. The same way people tried to rationalize the concept of a hierarchy of races through science and thus tried to legitime the awful things they did. It‘s just the framework of the time.

Also, the Klan explicitly persecuted Catholics. The religious denomination(s) the Klan espoused didn’t even exist when the witches were burned.

The first point about religious fanaticism is kinda understandable in a super general way, as in hyper religious people in all of human history and places tended to do exclusion and persecution, but the attempt of making a point about men and women is just lacking any connection here.

Not only are you comparing two things that really have nothing to do with each other, your underlying understanding of these things is also wrong. There is no connection there other than the moral depths Humanity can reach if they feel another group of people is different and inferior to themselves.

FinancialArmadillo93 t1_je81grl wrote on March 30, 2023 at 2:04 AM

I was being a bit cheeky. I should not drink wine and post any comments on Reddit.

I have a degree in sociology and wrote papers on both the KKK and the Salem area witch trials in college. Sorry that I didn't go into extreme academic depths on this subject in my offhand Reddit comment. (!)

My point was these extremists had no trouble calling themselves "wizards" which sounds positive, while "witches" are always bad and tended to be women. An absolute over-generalization.

In this moment, I was also only referencing the limited witch killings in the United States, primarily the Salem Village (now known as Danvers) witch killings in the United States because the KKK is also only a U.S. phenomenon. To compare the European witch trials to the American-born KKK would not be appropriate.

In the Salem area witch trials, 14 of those killed were women. And your'e correct, they were not burned at the stake, most were hanged, one was "pressed" with rocks and four died in jail. I know this, but most people think they were burned at the stake and I was kind of drunk so I just threw that out there. I totally 10,000% apologize to the Reddit community.

If you look at the KKK, historically, yes, there were women members but they were largely marginalized and the overwhelming majority of the leaders were men.

While the KKK was born from nationalist movements following the civil war and other important moments in history, and while it's primarily known as a fraternal organization (and a cult of hatred), it is difficult to separate its roots from religious protestant beliefs.

The Southern Poverty Law Center notes that, in general, KKK leaders had traditionally held close ties to protestant places of worship, often serving in leadership roles, in addition to often being well-known leaders in the community. It was not uncommon at different points in U.S. history for pastors to be involved in the KKK and even reference their beliefs during Sunday sermons. The original KKK movement organizers compared their beliefs to those leading the Medieval crusades -- which were all about religion, for instance.

So, yes, you are correct in stating that it is not a purely religious group, and indeed, a fraternal organization, but it doesn't mean that there is not a hyper (if faux) religious undercurrent.

Today's resurrection of the KKK and neo-Nazism seems to be firmly affixed to the idea of Christian Nationalism.

I don't think the KKK is a religious group. I think it's a hate group whose members have always tried to justify their hatred of black, Jews, Catholics, Latinos, Native Americans, homosexuals and leftists with religion.