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March_Latter t1_izza7gz wrote

Reply to comment by Technical_Hair_4383 in The Pioneer Institute has found that most MA residents favor a history MCAS for graduation by Technical_Hair_4383

You remove the stakeholders. We are obviously not doing the right thing now teaching kids history and if we aren't perhaps the best idea is to stop teaching them history.

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Technical_Hair_4383 OP t1_izzz36s wrote

It's public education; the stakeholders can't be "removed." And public schools aren't going to eliminate history from the curriculum. The problem isn't the history curriculum in Massachusetts -- the state frameworks are pretty good -- the problem is that any test, however fact-based, must leave out a lot of material, and it must be approved by the state. That means that LOTS of people will get to weigh in on it, all of them with opposing views of what needs to be included.

My money is on a repeat of what happened last time this was attempted: It was tried out but was eliminated.

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March_Latter t1_j01kkkd wrote

I have spent a lot of time with the under thirty crowd and there history knowledge is terrible. Its not even what they don't know that is tough to imagine, its what they know wrong. Stupid adjustments at times. Whole time periods misconstrued. Outcomes that are wrong. Wrong even in the basics. Taught with a very hard slant? You bet.

We don't want or need LOTS of people to weigh in, that's a very bad idea that should be removed from all school decisions....Too many with an agenda who want to teach things wrong to make their group appear better.

So if we are going to continue to teach history this way I say lets just stop. Knowing no history is far better than believing you know the correct history.

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Technical_Hair_4383 OP t1_j03q7s4 wrote

"The cure for the ills of Democracy is more Democracy." - Jane Addams

Public schools require a public consensus of what is to be taught, because they are public schools, not private ones. That's why we have elected officials overseeing school policies. While it might seem like a good idea to have experts decide by themselves what history curricula should include, it isn't. If you look at the countries where there is no democratic process for education, you find top-down decision making results in worse biases.

Most people don't know much about history, and that's been true for a long time.

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March_Latter t1_j03vyrl wrote

But they did understand the basics of history and if given more history to learn it was added on seamlessly to previous history. Why is simple, they got taught the basics without a slant based on facts because intentional changes are fiction, and that should be left to the English teacher. Far worse is intentionally creating a new narrative and teaching it to children to disregard a part of history you don't like as that is more than a waste of every ones time, its difficult to repair later on and that's as intended by the person creating the lie. So if we are just going to have teachers stand up and bullshit the children lets save a step and read them Gone with the Wind and let them know its fiction so at least some good come from the time and investment.

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Technical_Hair_4383 OP t1_j04335f wrote

>What period are you talking about? How long has it been since you observed a history teacher doing anything in the classroom? Or looked in a recently published curriculum? Or examined state history frameworks?
>
>Most well-qualified high school teachers now use primary documents regularly and teach students to read them critically. That's teaching the basics, I think. And there is more support now than ever. Here is one of the foremost institutions working with teachers: Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History. Take a look around the site. Here is another worth looking at: https://www.neh.gov/ and these videos.
>
>I think you don't know as much about teaching history as you think you do.

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March_Latter t1_j06j4p4 wrote

Have you met todays under 30 crowd? If teachers claim to be teaching the correct documents then they can explain how these kids don't know anything about even basic history. Perhaps an investigation of their absolute failure would be best. Its either they are teaching it wrong, or they are complete failures in their jobs and these kids are making up their own history.

Go find one and ask them questions. They do not know the answer. WWI...complete unaware. WWII? We went to save the jews? Korea Absolutely positively zero. Vietnam, just the sexual revolution and our troops discovered drugs. American Indians, magical people who never harmed any one and were living in complete peace when the white people intentionally killed them with disease.

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Technical_Hair_4383 OP t1_j08lr1w wrote

What evidence do you have for your claims? That's what I ask my history students.

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March_Latter t1_j08nsub wrote

Go ask your past students. There should be a Starbucks right up the street and they will be there behind the counter. Ask some basic questions. Find out for yourself.

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Technical_Hair_4383 OP t1_j08tt9g wrote

I teach mainly psychology these days, and the graduates from my classes are not behind the counter at Starbucks, lol. You seem to form your opinions based mainly on personal experience and conjecture. Have a nice day.

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March_Latter t1_j08vvlk wrote

You seem to be only able to look straight ahead and notice whats next to you. Sorry you have been given a position educating kids..they actually needed someone.

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