Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

endofthered01674 t1_iu1vdfs wrote

In most cases, it's ICE. Most individuals make asylum claims, so they get shuffled around while awaiting the appeal of that claim.

Not so much a 'who' so much as a 'what' with federal bureaucracy.

14

[deleted] t1_iu1x1ln wrote

[deleted]

−26

endofthered01674 t1_iu1z2mi wrote

As the person who also replied mentioned, most border towns are way way overwhelmed. They're doing their best to help both the people crossing over and those towns who really do a ton to help them.

I don’t think a lot of people who live far away from border states realize the amount of effort localities put into trying to help these people. It's just too tall a task to do it well. ICE is equipped to turn people away, not house them.

12

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu1zlf5 wrote

So just revoke these people’s autonomy? I mean how would you feel if the government told you you had to just up and move to god knows where at a moment’s notice?

−14

ReporterOther2179 t1_iu2957h wrote

In the sense that they are under court order their autonomy is limited. Those claiming asylum because of the horrific conditions in the old country have a date on which they appear in front of a court to argue their case. They are released but it is understood that they are assetless so housing is arranged. The housing on the border being full up they are legally by the book shuffled off to other locales. We’re all one country you know, immigrants are a Massachusetts problem too. So these people are pretty much free range until their court date for which the vast majority do appear because they don’t want to screw up their one chance at the Golden Ticket. All of this is an insane way to handle the problem but the Republicans have been screwing over any reform since Reagan, all while conditions fester South of us because of all the billions in drug money we send them.

2

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu29kth wrote

If there’s a court date, shipping them thousands of miles away becomes even more problematic. Are they on the hook for getting back to the border to appear in court? Do you have any idea how expensive travel is these days?

And I don’t know how to explain this to you, but just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. After all, if this is being done by a government entity, it’s definitely legal and definitely wrong.

3

ReporterOther2179 t1_iu2ig68 wrote

I’m not much interested in fantasy.

−1

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu2iloq wrote

Wait till you find out laws can change. Does your moral compass change with them?

3

ReporterOther2179 t1_iu2ipr1 wrote

Still not much interested in fantasy.

−1

PM_me_PMs_plox t1_iu35fqb wrote

I don't think anyone was forced to move. They can stay where they are, but they'll be homeless instead of homed.

1

endofthered01674 t1_iu23o8u wrote

Well, the issue is created by too many people crossing illegally (hence the asylum claims, as it forces the system to accommodate them in the meantime). I'm all for people wanting to move here, we just need to disincentivize people coming in droves and ultimately doing it the right way by applying etc. We just can't handle it, and it's not really fair on anyone involved. Nor is the status quo at all sustainable.

−1

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu26iy8 wrote

Requesting asylum and immigration are basic human rights, but okay…

7

chucktownbtown t1_iu1ybqh wrote

Where they are typically can’t handle them. Keep in mind there will be over 3 million boarder crossers into the US this year.

They can’t all stay in the boarder states - they simply don’t have the capacity to add/keep that many people in shelters, fed, etc.

It’s not just Florida and Texas governors moving these people around. Our federal govt is doing it in huge volumes.

9

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu20ceu wrote

"Hey john, we have too many people here. Let's just shove them on a plane and throw a dart at the board to figure out where they go. No no need to plan or notify, what's the worst that cam happen. No i don't care that one is pregnant or sick"

−5

craigawoo t1_iu1zpnh wrote

This is what we call NIMBY.

6

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu1zyf1 wrote

My problem is the lack of choice these people are given. Or do you think that hundreds of people voluntarily decided to get shipped to a random motel with little to no notice? You need to look into the details of the Martha’s Vineyard incident for everything you need to know on that front.

−2

chucktownbtown t1_iu20w89 wrote

You should really research the conditions in these boarder towns.

They have Mass populations of homeless boarder crossers, living in conditions that would make Mass/Cass look upscale. Terrible violent crime to deal with, etc.

They are getting moved because they need to be. It’s also in their own best interest.

They also do not have to come here at all (as in cross the boarder), which is a choice they themselves made.

Our govt doesn’t just have millions of unoccupied govt housing facilities vacant and ready for this.

5

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu215ja wrote

You know that same reasoning was given for shipping Jews around Europe during the 1940s and we know how well that worked out…

May I remind you that seeking asylum is a basic human right? As is being treated better than simple cargo…

−5

chucktownbtown t1_iu22w8s wrote

For one, I am Jewish with a grandfather who was in a work camp for 4 years and lost his whole family other than a sister… so fuck off with your comparison.

And two - I didn’t say for them not to come at all. Just that they themselves had the choice knowing there are no guarantees of housing, food, etc once here.

And three - are you that mad that our government is trying to find better living opportunities for them? Do you really prefer they struggle to find it on their own?

6

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu2318j wrote

I’d rather they be given the choice. Look at the way the Martha’s Vineyard migrants were duped. Trickery does not equal consent.

0

chucktownbtown t1_iu23f75 wrote

Can agree on that.

But what Florida did is different than what ICE is doing with transporting. There is an attempt to find them a landing ground (as in housing, not just an airport runway)

4

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu248mq wrote

Then why not alert the towns involved that they’re about to receive several hundred refugees? And after the MV incident, I think we really need to look into whether these people gave informed consent. Because I very much doubt many of them did

1

chucktownbtown t1_iu253xw wrote

I couldn’t tell you why they don’t alert the towns. We can both agree that a simple phone call would go a long way.

My guess is that a lot of towns would ask for them not to come here because of a lack of resources. Problem is that, where they are coming from, there are also a lack of resources.

I’m only stating the problems that exist.

2

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu23aa1 wrote

I’d also like to point out that being Jewish doesn’t make you immune to advocating genocide. So you should be well aware of how it happens.

−1

chucktownbtown t1_iu242a5 wrote

You made an ignorant statement. To even compare what is happening now to what happened to them is ridiculous. And shows a lack of understanding as to what it’s like at our boarder for these asylum seekers.

3

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu24j3g wrote

Yeah, Jewish scholars haven’t been making that comparison for years or anything…

Besides this is how it started. Or are you gonna seriously argue that there are no similarities between this and relocating Jews into ghettos?

1

chucktownbtown t1_iu269op wrote

Moving migrants into housing, offering the kids places in our schools, giving them access to our healthcare to a level they have never had the opportunity to receive. Finding food sources for them. This is not the same.

Unless you are suggesting this is the end goal of the Biden administration. In which case, you should start demanding answers from our elected leaders.

2

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu26e99 wrote

I mean their policy so far has been almost no departure from Trump’s immigration policy, so…

2

chucktownbtown t1_iu27afw wrote

A big difference being trump eventually made asylum seekers stay in Mexico. Biden allows them to stay here (which I’ll note I agree with).

The difference in that policy made the crossings explode, however. We have as many asylum seekers now, in a 5 week span, that we would see annually before.

You can’t safely accommodate the vast increase in numbers in one area (the boarder).

Your energy should be spent directed at our state officials to prepare and welcome migrants here. All states should do it, because that’s what’s going to eventually happen anyway.

3

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu27fox wrote

That needs to be something done on a federal level though.

1

ReporterOther2179 t1_iu29oiv wrote

You are conflating two unrelated procedures. And the people have surrendered themselves to the system voluntarily. They would say that a random motel is an improvement in their condition.

3

VulcanTrekkie45 OP t1_iu29s2r wrote

And you know they consented to this how? What source do you have?

−1

ReporterOther2179 t1_iu2iarn wrote

The fact that they are in the system because they asserted asylum. If they had not it would be back on the bus Jack , and we wouldn’t be talking about them. Elementary and fundamental.

3

PtrWalnuts t1_iu3g98u wrote

I think if America took a vote we'd rather just swap you for one of them. What do you say? Why don't you go back where you came from?

Oh I guess there's no more third Reich.

1

jeanie111 t1_iu40d3m wrote

Why don't you want marginalized in your neighborhood? Is it ok if they put them where it isn't an inconvenience for you. If our government wants to grant asylum to everyone then we should all bare this responsibility.

1