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Mr-Chewy-Biteums t1_ir0yzpy wrote

I manage a 3-family rental in MA. I will try to keep my long story as short as possible. I promise it is relevant.

The house I maintain is 3 stories, with each floor being its own 2-bedroom apt. Up until last year, the whole thing was heated by one ancient boiler. It supplied heat to radiators throughout the house. There was one thermostat that had to be programmed so that everyone was at the required temps.

Last November the boiler failed and a new system had to go in as quickly as possible, but while still meeting the legal requirements of MA. The boiler failed in such a way that CO was released, so every agency that could possibly get involved was involved. The fire dept., the gas co., the health dept., the city plumbing inspector, and the plumbing co. that did the work.

The solution that we came to was to install what are called direct-vent furnaces in each apt. They are about 4' wide by 2' tall and 18" deep. The ones I have are rated at 38K BTU and are sized to sufficiently supply warm air to the 5-room apartments.

However, they are, as is OP's system, just one unit in each apartment. They are in the living rooms, as those are roughly the center of the apartments. There are no additional units, vents, radiators etc. in each room. The ideal scenario is you would leave the individual room doors open during the day and let them warm up.

The tenants and the health dept. initially balked a bit at this, but after a lot of research and back and forth, it was determined that this system satisfied MA laws.

​

And so that's the point of this long post. It was my very recent experience that a properly sized and properly working central heating unit DOES meet the requirements of the Mass. health codes. This was not me interpreting the law, this was at least 3 professional agents of the local health department making a determination. They did not require that each room had its own heating source, as long as the proper temperature could be reached in each room.

(of course, this assumes the system is functional and appropriate, which may or may not be the case for OP)

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Thank you

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nattarbox t1_iqyc8sw wrote

>(A) The owner shall provide and maintain in good operating condition the facilities for heating every habitable room and every room containing a toilet, shower or bathtub to such temperature as required under 105 CMR 410.201.

Seems pretty cut and dried. You paying for the gas doesn't impact it, they need to have installed equipment to put heat in each room (ducts, individual heaters, radiators, whatever), including the bathroom.

Next question is do you want to give your landlord a really big problem over this and deal with what that might entail, or suck it up. If you have a good deal on the place and want to stay more than one year, and/or live in peace without an angry landlord, definitely something to consider.

Gonna be absolutely cold AF in your bedrooms this winter. I would probably start by talking to the landlord, and seeing if you can work it out with them. If not, calling the public health department should result in them lighting a fire for you. 🤭

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_iqydjuv wrote

Yes, this is what I found also. But it is not clear at all... "...maintain in good working condition the facilities for heating every habitable room..."

This just means that the heating system/element/furnace, etc has to work to heat the unit... there is a lot of ambiguity. It could be read as this means that, yes, every room needs a source like vents, baseboards, a radiator.... OR.... it could be read as though they just need to maintain one system.

Tbh, I have never lived or known anyone who has lived with this type of setup. And I've lived Ina handful of places and been inside probably hundreds of apts in my life lol.

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Comfortable_Plant667 t1_iqym6p5 wrote

If you talk to your landlord, also call the board of health without telling your landlord you are doing so. I lived in a place like this. It's illegal for a landlord to rent a living space that relies on passive heat. Take steps now and your landlord may be held responsible for paying for your hotel accommodations.

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_iqydto3 wrote

And, yeah, I most likely won't say anything for now bc I do have a good deal compared to how expensive the market is rn... But I was just wondering for other reasons that I won't go into if I would have a point if I ever "needed it". Like in my back pocket lol.

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nattarbox t1_iqyidof wrote

You gotta combine it with the other part about maintaining temps in each room, it's all part of the same law. If you have a blast furnace in the living room but your bedrooms are 50F because the doors are closed, they're in violation. The landlord needs to provide heating equipment that keeps every room within the stipulated range.

I think it'd be a pretty quick ruling from the health department if you wanted to go that route.

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wolf95oct0ber t1_ir01y1j wrote

Had this setup in our apartment. One furnace in center of apartment plus and old stove heater in the kitchen. At least it was gas and not oil. It had a small knob on it with numbers 1-5. Worked ok. Put our bedroom in the room closed to to the furnace and left the door open.

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AutomationBias t1_iqyclsw wrote

It’s supposed to be heat for every habitable room. Get a cheap digital room thermometer. The minimum requirements are a heating system that will reach 64 degrees at night and 68 degrees during the day.

https://masslandlords.net/massachusetts-heat-laws/

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massachusetts-law-about-winter-heating

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_iqydeom wrote

Yeah, I'm gonna do that and i saw that. But I mean, I don't know if they could say just turn the heat up. Like, if I set the thing to 85, I'm pretty sure that the bedrooms do in fact reach 64/68. But then it's too hot elsewhere. So I don't know what the standard would be. I'm sure if I set the actual thermostat to 64/68 tho, that the other rooms are likely not reaching that temperature, since the thermostat only measures the air right near it (which would be warm)

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AutomationBias t1_iqye8pi wrote

Yeah, unfortunately there’s no right to being comfortable. You’ve got a case if cranking the heat doesn’t get you to 64 where you sleep, but otherwise I think you’re out of luck. I know exactly what kind of heater you’re describing, too - I rented an apartment that was exactly the same setup. I ended up sleeping on a couch by the furnace during the winter.

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_iqyerpb wrote

You did?!? Do you know what the type of heater is called? I've never seen this before in a residential unit. I thinkkkk this house might possibly have been used as some type of office or commercial (or maybe combination business & residential) building at one point. The house was built in the 1800s I know and there's like those old EXIT type signs that you'd see in buildings from the 60's/70s.

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NoMoLerking t1_iqyo5df wrote

It’s a direct-vent space heater. I dated a girl that had an apartment heated the same way. Both bedrooms faced the living room so she and her roommate slept with their doors open in winter and a fan in each doorway blowing out (figuring the air at the floor was colder so it should blow toward the heater…no idea if it helped).

They heated (and humidified!) the kitchen with a giant lobster pot full of water over a burner on low. Good times.

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nattarbox t1_iqyirev wrote

There's a high range on the required temps too, the heat isn't supposed to exceed 78F, although every rental I had with steam radiators did lol. Telling you to heat the living room to 100F so the other rooms will be warm isn't a legal solution. And if you're paying for gas you don't want to do that anyway.

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Chippopotanuse t1_ir2z5jy wrote

Is this a legal apartment?

If not, calling in the authorities to find any heating violation by the landlord (which might be the case, the heat seems insufficient) may land you on the streets.

Which is how landlords get away with beyond shitty illegal apartments.

Are utilities separately metered?

And please don’t use space heaters for heat. They are typically banned as heating devices since they cause tons of fires in old shitty apartments (wires behind the walls get too hot and can arc/catch on fire) and the resulting fire could kill you.

I’d honestly call a lawyer about whether the city can force you out if there are violations presented, and also ask the lawyer if you even need to be paying rent for the lack of heat, or whether you can escrow rent.

Are utilities separately metered? Are you paying for heat and electric? Or is that covered in the rent?

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_itg76ct wrote

Woahhh... your post comes off really condescending. Like, I know how fires start, I'm not a child. I already know everything you said actually, went to school for that, but all of it is irrelevant anyway... You went down a rabbit hole....

My apt is 100% legal and not shitty or something. I was just asking about the heater is all.

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Chippopotanuse t1_itg8e60 wrote

Bro, you don’t have heat in your rooms. You asked for help.

I offered good faith advice.

Nothing was condescending. That’s on you if you choose to read it that way.

If you feel the need to puff your chest out and try to act like you know everything and “went to school for it” and want to still claim your apartment is legal and “not shitty”…ask yourself why it doesn’t have a proper heating system.

100% it wouldn’t pass any occupancy in ANY town in Mass if it has habitable rooms with no heat source. Thus my comment on it not being legal.

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_itg8rtk wrote

I have seen the paperwork, it is 10000000000% legal, trust me. I don't want to write too much in case my landlord ever somehow saw this. It is just one of those situations that is kinda shitty but legal. Like a loophole. I can get all the rooms to the correct temperature so that's why.

The rest of what you said is correct, it's just based off of an entirely different scenario is all. If it was illegal, then definitely, yes.

The explaining how fires start and why space heaters are dangerous part definitely sounds condescending. Just comes off as if talking to a child or clueless person explaining how fires start, that's all.

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Chippopotanuse t1_itg9hku wrote

Like I said, if you want to interpret folks trying to be helpful as treating you like a child…that’s on you. I talked to you the way I would have talked to my best friend.

YOU came here to solicit advice.

YOU talked about using space heaters for heat (yet now are defensively saying that without space heaters you can “get all the rooms to the correct temperature”)

I wish you the best. But you are reading all sorts of things into my comments on your own accord.

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_itg9vir wrote

You need to read more thoroughly. I mentioned that I used them a few times but not anymore and that it's not an option, not using them.

And yes, I can get the rooms to the correct temperature using the supplied heating source, I just have to turn the thermostat up high. How is that confusing?

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xKimmothy t1_iqykk44 wrote

Not a solution for your immediate issue, but would it be worth it to have space heaters in each room and only turn them on when you're in there? I guess this would only work if you only really used one room at a time.

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[deleted] OP t1_ir0exc5 wrote

This may not be a legal apartment. You may have to go along to get along. If you make too much of a fuss you may be given a 1 month notice to move out.

I would not be surprised to learn that you are a month-to-month tenant and do not have a lease.

Edit: Keep a window open/cracked. I'm not sure those old gas space heaters are legal or considered safe anymore. Make sure you have a carbon monoxide detector.

Your landlord is not going by the rules, take it or leave it.

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Pretty_Bed1983 t1_itg7q8f wrote

Wrong wrong wrong wrong on everything you said but ok lol. Like literally the opposite of everything you said lol. You just assumed it was illegal but it's not, trust me, I am 100% sure.

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