HVAC installation prices have skyrocketed over the past few years

Submitted by Brennod10 t3_11qdz68 in massachusetts

More of a rant than anything, but why/how have HVAC prices gotten to the point they’re at now? Back in July 2020, I got 3 quotes for a new central air install (furnace, AC condenser, ductwork) all in the $20,000 range. Decided on a minisplit system for $14,000 instead. I’m re-evaluating my options after my boiler died, and central air install estimates are now in the $40,000-$45,000 range. Even adding 1 minisplit head and swapping out my heat pump to a larger size was priced around $24,000. Are companies just giving outrageous estimates because they don’t need the work… is this the effect of the mass save $10,000 rebate… or something else? A 100% increase in price after 2.5 years is shocking to me.

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[deleted] t1_jc2nlwk wrote

[deleted]

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MassholeAsswhole t1_jc2q5sy wrote

I'd imagine over the pandemic a ton of people bought houses and realized holy shit my boiler is how old AND I don't have AC!? So the demand has sky rocketed, while employee pool for trades has not kept up, arguably even shrunk as people retire.

I imagine people in the trades will make a killing over the next few years.

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thatsaSagittarius t1_jc3q624 wrote

My brother works in this sector and is transitioning to a less physical part of it. That's just the problem. There aren't enough people and it's insanely taxing (he climbs roofs and attics all the time). The cost to get trained and then train them is high.

Equipment cost has skyrocketed so bad that a tool that cost him $5k 3 years ago he could sell used right now for $8k aimce new its $10k.

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modernhomeowner t1_jc2o2g2 wrote

Certainly the MassSave rebate helps skew supply and demand for both materials and labor which in turn increases the cost in order to meet demand. States outside of New England see our rates on r/hvac or r/heatpumps and they think what we pay is crazy!

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MassholeAsswhole t1_jc2rizl wrote

Yeah and most states outside new england don't have the oldest housing stock in the nation suffering from decades of neglect without upgrades and maintenance.

My mind was BLOW when i found out my house as wood gutters, the cost to replace them, AND i have to oil them yearly.

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Son_of_Blorko t1_jc34tz9 wrote

Even without yearly linseed oiling, wood gutters can last many decades, and they can be painted. Extruded vinyl is just blech and extruded aluminum is OK but not very durable.

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bigolebucket t1_jc3bplu wrote

Honestly between equipment costs and labor (shortage of skilled tradesmen) both going up, 2x is pretty close to what I've seen in other areas of the building/construction industry.

In my view Mass Save is only contributing indirectly by increasing demand. I doubt installers are just adding the rebate since competition should keep that in check. Otherwise you're talking systemic market failure or a cartel among installers. The latter seems extremely unlikely, though the former may be possible. I honestly don't know if there are barriers to competition preventing new firms from starting/moving into state, or existing firms expanding.

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Simon_Jester88 t1_jc30m5j wrote

Because good intentioned government policies are being written by politicians looking for brownie points rather then people in the HVAC field and the industry is suffering as a result.

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elemenopppppp t1_jc3zmxd wrote

I sell for a living and yes it’s brutal. My close rates been super low and it’s a lot to do with the manufactures and owners raising labor rates. Has nothing to do with not needing the work.

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movdqa t1_jc39dxu wrote

We replaced our HVAC back in 2010 for $10K. I shudder to think what prices are today. We have it on a maintenance contract as we want it to last as long as possible.

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nattarbox t1_jc2vaze wrote

Did you think they would stay flat while everything else got expensive?

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Brennod10 OP t1_jc2vhah wrote

I just didn’t think prices would double is all.

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-Horatio_Alger_Jr- t1_jc4q69c wrote

Prices for the material have doubled and sometimes tripled since 2020.

Inflation went through the roof.

Minimum wage is now sitting at $15 an hour. Skilled trade wages went up because of that.

Code changes and new regulations have made things much more expensive.

A quote being double what it was 3 years ago is normal.

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nattarbox t1_jc2xsmr wrote

Saw someone else comment a theory that installers are adding the new Masssave rebates into their pricing. No idea if thats true, but that + general cost increases could easily double it.

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elemenopppppp t1_jc449mz wrote

I’m in sales at a very large company and my friends all do the same thing and I can tell you this theory is completely false. The gross price is the gross price and rebates come back to you otherwise we wouldn’t be able to compete

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jaysun13 t1_jc5gok8 wrote

They are. Same with solar. The government is getting played by these companies. These companies will pay like 6k for solar panels then charge 60k

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wsdog t1_jc32poz wrote

Of course, why wouldn't they? As car manufacturers are adding the 7500 "credit" into their electric car price.

The trick is that not everyone qualifies for mass save and these people are screwed.

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Positive-Material t1_jcg5y1p wrote

Hey! I can install an HVAC system for you affordably, but.. most people get greedy, and then refuse to pay at all and nickel and dime. I went to a vocation school for it, worked under a regional manager, installed myself, got certifications, then became a plumber. But nickel and dime customers are a pain. The whole get quotes thing is a waste of time, but it is only because you don't know who is good in the industry and are forced to rely on well marketed companies with shiny trucks, and when you get a good hvac guy, you get so greedy and suspicious, the guy doesn't wanna work for you.

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ooStayFrostyoo t1_jc51pfw wrote

Hate to see these guys making a good living…

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crake t1_jc2ofh4 wrote

Paid $20k recently for a new heat pump for a 1200 sf condo.

FYI, Mass Saves is a total scam - I've been going back and forth with them for months and they just sent the same bs one liner asking me to provide an invoice for the installation of an integrated control module or something like that (i.e., a sub-part of the $20k system I bought that isn't itemized or something on the invoice).

I think Mass Saves is a scam organization that preys on consumers in the Commonwealth, steals goodwill through a chimerical scheme by which it makes promises to reimburse residents that it does not honor, and is liable under the Massachusetts Consumer Protection statute (c. 93A). I'm probably going to sue them once my claim is finally denied, though I hope there is a class action suit by the AG to force the entire scheme to go under.

Installers use Mass Saves to bump up prices by 5-10k too, because they promise you that you will get your money back from the program. You will not get it back, so don't count on it.

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Burnt_broccolini t1_jc2quai wrote

Mass save is a state program. It doesn’t make money off of anyone. I get that they are being shitty to you but I don’t think suing will work in this case

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crake t1_jc2w6v9 wrote

It's a consortium established by the major utilities in the state, not a state program. Those utilities need goodwill from the public because that is how they get rate increases approved by the legislature. The electric companies that participate also benefit because consumers use more electric.

It's not altruistic, it's just dressed up that way.

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Burnt_broccolini t1_jc2ywcv wrote

What? Ratepayers pay into the mass save fund and then the state creates incentives for a REDUCTION in electricity usage as part of the ‘Efficiency is our first fuel’ initiative.

The utilities don’t do it from the goodness of their heart OR because they want favor with legislators. They work with the state, ratepayers, contractors and others to help make us the #2 state for energy efficiency right behind California.

Agreed, it’s not altruistic. It’s a way to move the needle for energy efficiency in a state that doesn’t produce much of its own energy. I get that they are being an asshole on your rebate, but that’s how government programs work, they suck and they take forever. It’s not a reflection on the design of the program

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MassholeAsswhole t1_jc36xld wrote

It is a state program that one of the sources for funding for it is utility companies, it was overhauled last year by the state:

>This week, Massachusetts approved a major overhaul of the Mass Save program, the state’s leading energy efficiency program and best tool to help residents kick fossil fuels and lower their utility bills. The dense, 343-page order lays out a three-year plan for 2022 through the end of 2024, and it is full of rebates, interest-free loans, free efficiency upgrades, and other incentives aimed at making homes across the state more efficient and resilient.

Source: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/02/science/what-new-mass-save-rewrite-means-you/?event=event12

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MassholeAsswhole t1_jc2qpq3 wrote

While slow as fuck, i have no had any issues get any of my rebates from mass saves for my HVAC installation, washing machine rebate, and heat pump installation.

A big part of the current rebate is integrated controls, which defeats the whole purpose of mini-splits efficiency allowing for controls of individual rooms but that's off topic, so if you're unable to prove you had it installed you're not eligible for the rebate, but your contractor should be able to itemize the final invoice for you.

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AutomationBias t1_jc2vngy wrote

I got my $15k rebate check from Mass Save within 8 weeks. I had to send additional documentation (which my vendor was happy to provide), but it wasn't some sisyphean ordeal.

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Frictus t1_jc2qx5f wrote

Mass Saves was a headache for me as well. I got my 10k rebate in the end and they've since been supportive when we had other troubles with our system.

I called them often and they never answered, then I called on a Saturday morning a little after they opened and someone answered on the first ring. They helped resolve my issue and I received the rebate a few weeks later. Try calling at all sorts of hours and days and see if you have more success.

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modernhomeowner t1_jc2slta wrote

What I think is great about MassSave, they gave me a $10k rebate for my heatpump, that will use enough energy to pay the state $14,000 in the state fees associated with MassSave. lol.

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