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Proof-Variation7005 t1_j8j58z3 wrote

Reply to comment by PabloX68 in Why is the Masspike the only toll road in Mass? by bostexa

Probably worth also noting that in a few decades, I think there will be few non toll roads for highways.

Gas tax revenue is disappearing. We know that with 100% certainty. The cost of that has to be replaced somewhere

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PabloX68 t1_j8j5ser wrote

Yes, if EV ownership increases significantly, tax revenue for road maintenance will need to be rethought somehow and maybe that means tolls. However, that's not going to help with local roads unless the toll taking technology changes substantially. In other words, fuel taxes affect people regardless of whether they use local roads or highways.

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bostexa OP t1_j8j83qz wrote

San Diego was evaluating a per-mile tax for EVs (maybe all cars and get rid of the gas tax)

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PabloX68 t1_j8j8fum wrote

I predict there will be some 4th Amendment concerns out of any of these schemes.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_j8j9b3v wrote

Depends really how it's implemented. But the writing is on the wall. In 50 years, either other taxes like income get increased to supplement car travel or there's going to be tolls/mileage taxes on highways and bridges.

I'd be OK with the former as long as we made public transportation 100% free.

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Easy-Progress8252 t1_j8l5nyf wrote

That’s the thing, we need reliable public transport like most of Europe and Asia. More than happy to leave the car at home for everything except vacations and grocery trips.

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IntelligentCicada363 t1_j8jbswz wrote

There is over 100 years of precedent giving the government incredible powers to regulate vehicular traffic, for reasons ranging from public safety to pollution. Zero chance of a 4th amendment challenge to any toll or tax.

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PabloX68 t1_j8jlx37 wrote

Zero? Absolute statements when it comes to anything to do with the law are nearly always wrong.

If we end up with a toll system that tracks where a vehicle goes (which would be necessary for local road tolls), that'll have 4A implications. If we put trackers in cars for the same reason, that'll have 4A implications.

I note those examples because simple odometer readings as a method would also be challenged because much of that usage could be out of state.

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gusterfell t1_j8jduma wrote

That depends. If it's based on odometer readings, then you're right. If it's based on making more/most roads into toll roads, then you've got a 4th Amendment case. There's no precedent for allowing the government to monitor where and when everyone is driving.

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IntelligentCicada363 t1_j8je8cz wrote

Given that driving has repeatedly been held to be a privilege and not a right, I am not sure I would put much stock in that argument. Courts would almost surely hold that local and state governments have a legitimate interest in monitoring and tolling vehicles.

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An odometer reading would be the most fair, indisputable, and easily implemented change though. That would have a nice effect of encouraging less sprawl.

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Throw in a weight tax and I'd be happy.

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PabloX68 t1_j8jm3y0 wrote

Odometer readings would be problematic because a lot of that mileage could be out of state, but you're quite right on local tolls.

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lorcan-mt t1_j8jhhud wrote

Then flip it and use odometer readings to qualify for a vehicle tax credit.

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