Louisiana is the only state with an earlier average high school start time at 7:30am. I'm hoping there is a bigger push sometime soon for high schools to start later.

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Not everyone has study hall though. I think my kid will only his senior year. And buses still have to go.

I think just have the buses pick up for high school AFTER elementary instead of the other way around.

Considering that Massachusetts is the number 1 public school system in the country, and countless studies have shown better outcomes for teens to start later in attentiveness, retention of material etc, etc. this should be an easy adjustment. Switching high school and elementary schedules would be difficult for parents though. My kid starts high school next year, she is going to a voke tech, and her bus ride is about an hour. She has to get the bus at 630. at least she can sleep on the bus but its not fun.

Mine started at 7:20am in Western Mass. I was NEVER on time. Fuck that

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When I didn't start class until 10am as a high schooler my grades went up. (That wasn't the only reason, but it helped!) It helped that I had time to sit & eat something at Dunkin donuts too.

So. Early. I was never awake till at least second period

My oldest is in HS, and they start at 7:20 AM (on the bus at 6:40-6:45 AM). There's a proposal in my town to change the start times and push them back 30 minutes (potentially, there's a couple of other options). I will say my kids are losing their minds about that proposal, because they are worried they'll get home late and have no time to do anything. Especially my youngest, who wouldn't get home until 4 PM since his school would start at almost 9 AM.

I think them being up stupidly early and starting that early is inappropriate, but there hasn't been an easy path so far for getting this settled.

EDIT: Just saw the proposal they went with is delaying the start of our high school by 35 minutes to 7:55 and the middle school will start 10 minutes later, and acquire 4 more buses to allow it to be just two tier instead of three tier.

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yeah, this feels like low-hanging fruit to boost what is already regarded as one of the best attributes of this state.

What an annoyingly shaped graph.

To be fair, sunrise in Massachusetts is earlier than most states due to how far East we are in our time zone.

It would be a good move for sure!

One of the few good things the admin at the high school my wife teaches at has done in the past few years is to move the start time back by an hour.

It’s far better for students and far better for teachers

My school started at 7:30 in PA :(

Unfortunately for the students of Massachusetts, we just spent about 2 years learning that public perception of education focuses primarily on the schools' role as babysitters, not what's best for the students.

In NZ, its a 8:50-9am start, at least at public schools.

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I don’t think people tend to get up much earlier than in other states though.

My high school used to start at 8, but they switched it recently so that it starts between 8:30 and 9. I was really happy to see it (though sad I never got to enjoy it).

7:30 home room. 7:31? Go to a different room, and get a detention for being late.

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7:24 in Westfield! Which in retrospect is such a weird start time.

My kids bus ride is only 20 minutes and he STILL has to get there at 6:30. School starts by 7:20.

I feel like this idea, of later start times for HS students, has been kicking around since I was in high school in the 80s-90s, and never gains traction.

I don't have much to say about the time, but I went to a Voc/Tech school and had an hour bus ride.. Usually did my homework on the bus!

It's high school - I imagine morning bus rides are pretty chill.

Isn't that NJ #1?

I remember going that time for Middle/High school. It worked out fine for me.

My wife's school district has already made the switch. It's happening. First start is elementary, then high school, then middle school. High school isn't started last as a compromise to get them out still early enough to have after school jobs. It's brutal on my wife (elementary principal) because she needs to be up at 5am to be in well before teachers and students, but it's still a much better approach.

Almost a whole hour earlier in Boston, than Indianapolis..

Middle school was very early - got on bus around 6:20/6:30 (first pickup) and would sleep until we pulled up to the school at 7:00. High school I lived in walking distance so the 7:30 start time was nothing. I never once thought about starting school later, I liked being out at 2:00. I worked too and the shifts were all over the place 5-9, 2:30-5:30, 3-7. We had a free period every other day so I’d do most work in there and finish whatever was left at home. It’s definitely a busy life especially with a job - athletics/art is still busy but definitely different impact than working a job.

Also will add - I was very very tired all the time and was very depressed in high school. The biggest factor was my inability to stop watching videos or tv on my phone at night. I’d stay up until 2am-3am, completely boning myself to be exhausted every single day. I would never have admitted to this in high school, but in college I realized if I didn’t straighten up I’d be wasting serious money. I would bet money that staying up too late on the phone is the majority of the problem, not the time that school starts in the morning.

Was just gonna say. It depends who you ask, I guess. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

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Lmao right? Every high schooler on that bus is drifting in and out of consciousness at 0630.

i legit forgot about covid and every dumb subplot of covid until now.

Simultaneously beautiful and almost completely unusable

Wow...you nailed it.

It's all a sham. I prefer to babysit starting at 9 so I left and took my kids out of this ridiculous school system.

Never in a million years had I ever thought I'd become a homeschooling parents until the state of Massachusetts, one of the leaders in education in the nation, told me straight up I was a babysitter.

For the record I have no issue with babysitting, it's still time and labor....but that's not what I signed up for...even though I kind of new, but thought that I could make it matter, back when I was naive and thought more of us wanted that too...

..."the kids just want to go back to normal"... Right, the same normal all parties have been bitching about for at least my entire lifetime.

Edit: To be clear, the state of Massachusetts as in the Department of Education didn't tell me I was a babysitter, which I thought would be clearly interpreted as hyperbole, I meant the state as in the totality of its citizens and local/national media coupled with the indirectly said "hey these people need to get back to work, so we have to get back into the classroom, asap"...as the person in the classroom, I will 100% stick to my statement on the apathy that exists in the American classroom, particularly in high school.

I haven't heard a good thing about the state of education in my experience as an educator other than the obligatory, end of year, end of high school romanticization of the experience...the day to day is miserable and had over the last 15 years, at my school, and my kids' schools increasingly become about mitigating problems and not about servicing the educational needs of individuals. Checking boxes. Fuck that.

Why do we do it! Makes no sense to.

Swim practice for me started at 6:00 a.m. in Pennsylvania. Luckily the pool and high school were in different buildings. Because the walks from practice to school and school to practice were the only times I saw the Sun in the winter.

but teenagers are hardwired to want to stay up until 2 am and then sleep in until ~10. it wasn’t your fault you did that. maybe if you had more discipline, yes, but you would be fighting nature.

Unfortunately fhey are usually too involved in enforcing arbitrary rules mandated by DESE to really examine whats best for students. We have great school systems because we have more affluent communities and a culture that values education, not because we necessarily are doing anything much better policy wise.

All my memories of that time are abject and complete darkness, frigid cold, shivering while dozing off. Total misery. Waiting for a bus to take me an hour away.

I was blessed to have a "progressive" high school that recognized the issue and mercifully started at 8:30 instead of 7:20.

They can say it's "for the parents" but my folks also did not want to get woken up at 6am regardless as breakfast was made and to drive me down into the center of town where the communal bus stop was.

The high school I went to started at 7:22am and it's in Massachusetts

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Limited number of buses are staggered for HS/MS/ES. Starting all schools at the same time would cost more in busing. (Reordering is a partial solution.)

HS students/parents want students out of school in time for after-school jobs and activities.

That’s the start time for all schools, not high schools. The public high school data is here and shows Massachusetts is indeed second earliest at 7:38am.

Take sports out of schools and then it would be easier to facilitate a later start. But you know that will never happen.

I don't think that is a factor tbh. Back when schools start times were set 2 factors were mainly considered:

1. Being light enough out for it to be safe for kids to wait outside for the bus or walk to school. That time is earlier here in MA than in most parts of the country. Older kids could reasonably be expected to be safer with less light so they started school first. This is also a big reason why many parents and school employee oppose permanent daylight savings time, it would mean much darker mornings in the winter.
2. Sun rising earlier also means it sets earlier. In order to ensure safe travel after school and accommodate after-school actives, school had to end relatively early. Kids walking home in the dark is dangerous. And many schools don't have lights for all of their sports fields so practice and games have to be before sunset.

I always loved the random ass start and end times for school and classes. Lunch at 11:47? Get out of school at 2:12? Sure why not.

r/confidentlyincorrect

As someone else said, we're talking about high schools, not all public schools K-12. The reason this is focused on high schoolers is that teenagers have a natural shift in their circadian rhythm. Kindergarteners are not teenagers and that's why OP didn't include elementary schools. The discussion around shifting to later start times is mostly focused on high schools and in some cases middle schools.

Kids I know are also worried about how that would impact their after school sports. The sun sets very early here for a good portion of the year meaning practice and games have to end early for outdoor sports and most districts can't afford to add lights to all of their sports fields.

Good for you we; we did the same and haven't looked back.

Well there are multiple very sensible reasons to do it. (Whether those reasons actually outweigh the negatives is a different story though lol).

Given how far east Massachusetts is in the timezone, the sun rises and sets earlier here than most other parts of the country. Having enough sunlight in the morning is important to ensure kids can get to bus stops or walk to school safely. Older kids can navigate more safely with less light so they are sent in earlier. Having enough sunlight after school is also important for safe travel home and so kids can have more time to participate in after school activities that require daylight such as sports.

I think most people (at least in my experience) acknowledge its better for teens to start school later but they are unsure of how to fix the sunlight related safety issues. Installing more streetlights and lights around sports fields would be a solution but most towns don't have the money for that.

People want to get out earlier so they can have more sunlight in the afternoons. A lot of after school actives require sunlight - sports, scouts, marching band, etc.

Just retired from teaching at a voc tech school in MA. Loved it. The kids love it too.

My kids are heavily involved in dance and Scouts, and those activities would have to move later to accommodate this or it would just all run together leaving no time for homework. While I want to say "Just move it all later!" the logistics of that get very tricky.

Me too. Like in the next four years. Since that is when it will affect me.

May your kids reap the benefit of your short temper, your ranting, and your false narrative.

Nowhere in Massachusetts are parents told “straight up” they are babysitters. Maybe you interpreted COVID mandates that way. Maybe your insane Facebook homeschool groups convinced you of that, but it isn’t true.

And even if the school district DID for some weird reason call you a babysitter, it’s pretty apt…because only someone who has the minimal investment in their kids that a teenager making $10/hour does would think that homeschooling is going to be a better path to success than Massachusetts schools.

And may a non-existent god have mercy on your kids souls.

Yet another reason to make Daylight time year round…

Nailed it. Really pretty looking. Which is good, because it took me like 4 minutes to figure out how to use it.

My highschool started at 8:00 and when I was a senior they did a test run and made every Friday start at 8:35 and now that’s the norm I believe

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As with how far north we are we have still earlier sunrises from March to September and earlier sunsets from September to March.

That’s 2:50-3pm in MA, that’s way too late

It’s buses. Unlike most other states, in Massachusetts the individual school districts bear the full cost of school buses (and manage their own vendor contracts), so districts stagger the school start times so the same buses can do multiple pickups and drop offs.

Look at the very big difference we have between high school and elementary school start times. At least some districts that tried to change start times in the last few years have run into huge problems with buses. As is often the case with buses in Massachusetts, it’s not even how fast the bus can complete the route, it’s how fast it can get back to the start of the route to do it again.

When I grew up in New Jersey, my school bus to middle and high school was a regular public bus with a school voucher that ran its route all day. It started in New York City and ended 100 miles away. My town didn’t pay for the same bus to come to my street to pick me up then come by again to pick up my younger siblings.

But Massachusetts has a lot of densely populated areas with no state bus service and the major road routes that aren’t highways are old and chaotic. The bus drives out from the depot to the school district and runs its routes within the district.

Dude...short temper? I did the job for 15 years... I had my kids in school for over a decade... I think a final straw was more like it.

I'm happy with our decision, and was very skeptical at first...my kids feel less stressed and I'm impressed with their progress and their ability to determine what they want to learn, they even have time to learn a foreign language, something they wouldn't get until high school, for 2 years....

Listening to my 3rd grader learn about consumers and producers for 2 months during Covid was more than enough to see where the focus is. We definitely have our ups and downs but overall my wife and I think it's the best choice for our family at the moment. We're not even opposed to them returning to public school, but not while standardized testing rules and the lack of individualized learning and teaching the individual are not taken seriously.

I understand the constraints, but the technology capabilities and resources are readily available, but as long as the system for educators values the ease of collecting data over how school actually should work for the individual we're good. Unless they really feel like they are missing out. For now the social activities they have (they spend a solid chunk of time in sports with other kids) seem like they are providing them with that aspect...their friends that are in school don't really sell it very well either.

Edit: I don't go on Facebook nor am I part of any homeschooling groups on Facebook or anywhere else. I'm just a frustrated educator that watched apathy play out every single day. I tried hard to make kids care about learning to make their day interesting and I guess ultimately failing...the vast majority simply don't, the overwhelming majority of the parents whose kids I taught didn't care about their kids education.

I have high expectations, I didn't graduate from high school in the states and struggled...but the fact that I wasn't just passed along was important to me. And I was allowed to try new things, lots of freedom to make academic risks. In my experience, and maybe I worked in a shitty school (on paper it's not, very much the contrary) we are very much pushed to pass students, look the other way, "seeing what we can do for kids"...that is not indicative of a solid school system. And it's not just my personal experience ..I have multiple friends in administrative positions...it's a problem.

Literally every other state but LA has a later start time and they all have sports.

Happy to hear... apparently I'm fucking my kids up to a good portion of this thread.

If I didn't have eyes and ears to see what is actually going on around me my entire life I'd probably be more worried...

The number of miserable, unfulfilled people I know personally and on the interwebs are a pretty clear indicator to me that the one thing most people went thru isn't doing it's intended job. Or maybe it is.

Why is this downvoted. I have met very few people who would want to start later. It wouldn't change much anyways. Sports would just be before school so all those kids would still be getting up at the same time.

I am the same way, long out of school but I would much rather start early and be done early and have the entire afternoon to myself.

Or sports, not really scouts, but the others will just all he before school this making the entire thing a wash.

My kids' school district (Newton) shifted the High School start time to 9:00 from 7:40 this year, a huge change. There do seem to be some benefits to starting later, but there are clear trade-offs.

It really messes with after-school activities, particularly sports because you have to coordinate with other schools. Our HS end time is now 3:45, so by the time kids can get on a bus to travel to an away game it's 4:00pm. By the time you arrive at another high school, game time may have to be 5:00pm. Now you have to worry about commuter traffic, sunset times, and pushing dinnertime to be quite late. Not to mention students at the other school have been out since 2:30pm or whatever and have to wait around for the Newton team to arrive a couple of hours later.

Sure, the sports team can leave school early. But if one outcome of a later start time is having athletes miss school, then that's not great.

Another issue: during the winter, it's starting to get dark while kids are going home from school. That's a safety issue, and it also just sucks to have zero daylight after school.

Exactly.

I’m not raising factory workers. I want my kids to learn how they learn best, to find their passions through learning and be allowed to be themselves— not be placed in a box and be told who they are by their peers.

So the article suggests 830. Are these kids just going to be going to sports before school, of course some already do like hockey due to ice time. But doesn't that make this entire thing a wash for a large portion of kids?

I was in line with the current MA start time I was not getting out of regular sports between 630-800pm pending the sport, meet, season we are talking about. So now that's all gonna be like an hour later?

We would have like an hour break after school before practice unless you were weightlifting that day so basically not enough time to do any work or decompress.

I started high school at 7:10. High school for northborough and Southborough

I started high school at 7:10. High school for northborough and Southborough

You haven't allowed for daylight saving.

I don't even care if my kids want to be factory workers. If they find personal fulfillment in that, awesome. It's really not about income or the need to be your own person...those things are obviously important but not my guiding light... personal fulfillment, taking owbershio of their lives...yes factory workers typically don't exude that...but I want to be clear that I don't belittle anyone who works to provide a service.

I'm with you finding passions and developing skills that will matter in their future, knowing the basics of coding, developing strong communication skills, thinking globally beyond their little bubbles, regardless of where that bubble may be. We're leaving for Portugal in a couple of months while they continue with their online curriculum, while we supplement with weekly field trips, Portuguese language development (which will be in a classroom because they see enough of my mug) and travels across the country.

Study halls don’t count towards time on learning.

1. We all have our kids in Mass schools. You act as if we aren’t aware of how they work?

2. You struggled to finish high school? Are not from the US? That explains a bit of your jaded takes.

3. Maybe had you gone to Mass high schools, and been surrounded by peers who go on to top universities (6 of the 12 kids in my calculus class went to Harvard, I went to law school and had a great wall st/big law career) you’d realize you have no goddamn idea what you’re talking about.

Kids are most definitely not just “passed along” in Mass unless they have brain dead parents who wish that to be the case.

Kids who come from well resourced households or households where education is a clear priority thrive and have an absolute abundance of top notch AP courses and extracurriculars to choose from.

Not to mention all of the social benefits that being in school can bring.

But maybe we’re all wrong and maybe a starving r/antiwork starving artist knows better than the all of us. I’m fine with those odds.

Our local district moved the high school starting time to 8:45 am. Now if they'd only ban cell phones, the students might have adequate attention to stay focused in class.

Adjusting start times makes sense for kids, but I don't know how anyone expects parents to be able to have multiple children of different ages and get their kids safely to school while holding down full time jobs. People complain that parents want schools to be convenient babysitting programs, but the reality is that we aren't in the 1950s anymore. Mom doesn't sit at home preparing meals and sewing clothes between pick up and drop off at school. Having kids is extremely expensive and forcing one parent (still most likely to be mom) to give up a career and income in order to get kids to and from schools at staggered times is rough. I don't know why this state doesn't have more free before and after care programs. There aren't too many jobs that let you start at 10:00 AM, leave at 2:00 PM, and take several days off per month for random half days and school holidays and closures.

Lol...

I moved to Portugal as a 14 year old...I'd love to see you do better than I did learning every single subject in what amounted to a foreign language for me...but go on and call me stupid. Fine.

You don't know the inner workings of the evaluation process and how they affect what your kid is exposed to and learns in school. And for 15 years I was rated proficient and exemplary, mentoring young teachers and being asked to put on professional development sessions for my coworkers. It's not Wall St...but I feel fulfilled in my attempts, and continue as an educator on my own terms, I teach people that want to learn.

Yes mass schools are great even comparatively worldwide... I think they would be 9th if we were a country...but I know they could be better. It should be better.

I was an AP teacher, in fact I (along with my Academic Coordinator, who also found greener pastures) started the program at my school that had zero AP classes (I'm also certified in ELA, History. Spanish and Portuguese and taught those subjects for the duration of my career in the classroom)...I know there are brilliant kids. Lots.of them, I also know lots of them that ultimately, once the school wasn't there to support them crashed and burned...but it's not the schools making them brilliant or fail...it's their home life and parents that care about their future...and also kids that don't want to be anything like their parents (that's my wife).

I'm not opposed to learning... I'm a life long learner always developing new skills. No stagnancy...I'd like to see more of that and schools in the US feel very apathetic to me from all angles at the moment...the moment being my 14 years in US public school as a student and 15 as an educator and 10 as a parent of 4 kids in public schools.

And for the record I don't believe in God either, nor in any grand narratives.

Edit: hadn't seen the antiwork, starving artist comment...lol.

Also, every year I was approached to "find ways" to get at least one student to the finish line...at least one...and yes, brain dead parents are behind that, no doubt about it...and it's not just at the school I worked at.

Should the start times be relative to the time the sun comes up?

Nobody show this to Tufte.

Before/afterschool care is really the key. And it's frustratingly hard in some towns and cities to figure out if they have these programs unless you already have a kid in the schools. We really make some things unnecessarily hard in this state.

Even where they do have them, they're still expensive. The people most likely to need before and after care are the people who can't afford to have one parent stay home. The costs of before care, after care, vacation care, and summer care are outrageous. Planet Money did an episode on child care and said it's basically a broken market and people are now pushing for the "solution" of parents taking out huge loans for child care like they do for college. It's insane. To have kids these days you have to either be rich enough to pay for everything or poor enough that you don't pay for anything. The middle class just gets screwed.

Derp, yup, my bad, and it's well known that later is better for HS people - towns I'm around it's been 8:30 for a while.

Edit - look at edit in my OP and get back to me about my "correctness"....

Can we agree at least that in class learning is far better for kids than zooms learning? Which would mean that teachers are way more important than just being called babysitters.

The district I work at tried to ban cell phones and parents lost their minds. It's too bad, because phones are a huge distraction.

So you never went to Massachusetts high schools yourself and won’t let your kids go.

But you’re an expert on them more than me (and the hundreds of thousands of households that don’t home school in Mass).

Weird how you think folks who’ve lived here for decades, and who are intimately involved with the schools somehow have zero access or knowledge how MA high schools work.

Cool beans.

Enjoy babysitting your kids. Best of luck.

The real question is: what is the priority for schools, academics or athletics?

I graduated from a tech school and it was the same thing. My bus picked me up at 6:40 and I was one of the later stops😂 some kids caught the bus at like 5:45 to 6 am.

Lol we all know that answer.but whether that's the case or not still a lot of kids will be affected and other after school programs of the like.

It probably has to do with the fact that the sun sets at 1:30 pm for a month

Being uneducated is hard, isn't it?

Why would we block this? It's significantly better for us. I ask for it every year. Use your brain for once.

It costs "too much" is usually the response. High school starts early so that the same buses can then go get elementary and middle school kids. When districts study possible changes, the outcome is usually "this would be beneficial but would increase bus costs by 30% so instead we will make a small adjustment that is free and do nothing else."

Clueless.

I was a freshman in NBPS before I moved and my wife is a product of NBPS with degrees from UMass Amherst and an MBA from UMass Dartmouth...if that's not enough public school educational experiences plus an outright love for knowledge, I don't know what is.

I'm going to roll with my 15 years as a public school teacher, and the multiple years of education between us guide what we think is right for our kids. I do value your opinion though, I don't know everything as I've learned in my life and can only work within the circumstances I'm presented with and always seek other's views to help shape my own. Something I try to impart on my kids... all systems, people, ideas are fallible and flawed and shouldn't inherently be accepted as the only way to do things. Self-reflection is important...we did that and consistently question our decisions...but it still always feels like the right thing to do at the moment.

I'm sure your kids are awesome and will be well off because of their public schooling, It might be just me and my personal experience(s), again if I didn't have eyes and ears for the last 40 years. I'm happy that you feel confident in what they are getting. You care about them, that's more than I can say for a lot of parents.

My kids can go back to school tomorrow if they showed any interest and if they weren't thriving on their own. I don't own them, I simply care for them, they are their own people. My life would be much much easier if they were all in school. But their love of learning is the most important thing to me and I simply didn't get that in the public school system.

I love spending time with my kids, literally nothing I would rather be doing. I love being the one to challenge them and their views of the world, I love traveling with them and exposing them to shit they will never be exposed to in their depressing little bubble of ALICE trainings and prepping for STAR and MCAS testing, and the nonsense of American adolescence.

:)

I know you have already painted a picture of me, and that's fine...but I assure you that nothing that I have done in the last few years was done in haste or because of a temper tantrum. It's genuinely what I believe is the best move for my family.

We're having a discussion about you and your comments about us as we speak.

This article caught my attention when it was posted weeks ago in r/texas.

I still visit that subreddit because we moved from TX to MA in October.

We had kids go through high school in Texas, and we now have kids in elementary, middle, and high school in MA.

I was a bit surprised how early high school starts in MA, as that is the ONLY thing that Texas seems to be more progressive on. We’re quite happy to be here. Not happy about that excise tax bill I just got from my town here for my car. Oh, well…

Lol you sound like a boomer karen, probably the same asshole giving the teacher a hard time for your special little spawn

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No... It's better for some kids, probably the majority given the learned helplessness of many. Teachers are more than babysitters, I certainly didn't act like one...but the general sentiment during Covid was that we were...my feelings.

I can confidently say it's not better for all...and Zoom isn't the only option. In a system of distrust zoom is horrendous, it's mandatory face time...and we all know how much we love that shit as adults.

Could it have been something much better? I absolutely think it could have ushered in a new concept of what school is... Maybe to be seen as more collaborative learning centers/community centers where kids could go rather than had to go... With educators, adjustment counselors, etc there to work with those that need help, in whatever capacity that was.

There is far too much control over the student body (I obviously understand why and there are larger societal problems to deal with before we can comfortably get to my vision) for it ever to feel like a place where kids, particularly adolescents (the only age group I can say I have solid experience with).

The downvotes on my other comments are pretty indicative that I do not represent the norm...lol, for what it's worth.

1. Sports and Band. MA actually enforces school hours and kids can’t leave early regularly for activities (yes, happens on occasion but not by rule).
2. Busses. Neither enough bus drivers or busses to NOT stagger school days. So in order to accomodate the sky-high bussing costs becuase of low supply, districts are beholden to the bus company hours when setting start/end times.

But what isn’t taken into effect is that people have to be paid for these roles. Before anyone says teachers get enough time off I ask you to attempt to work in education where a lot of the work happens after the end of the school day at home and a lot of money is paid out of pocket for supplies.

I'm reading Johann Hari's book, Stolen Focus, and it is hitting home with me.

Yes and a lot of the people causing that distraction are parents. I understand they want their child to have a lifeline should the worst happen but kids and parents are texting each other all day long.

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Grew up in mass public schools. Moved to Texas end sophomore year of high school. I was so happy to start school at almost 9am. Until getting out at 4pm and felt like my whole day was at school but in mass I would get out at 1:30-2. Also the way the teach is so different so I ended up being taught things in highschool in Texas that I was taught in middle school in mass

I'm not suggesting that teachers come in early and stay late without additional pay. I'd love to see schools or the state hire staff specifically for these roles. If teachers want the extra work for extra pay, cool. If not, there are other people available. In fact, lots of towns have before and after care already, so these people already exist and are working and being paid. I'm just saying we should try to better integrate them into the standard school offering. The cost of before and after care is high for parents, and the school day hours no longer make sense. The days seem to start between 7 and 9 and end between 2 and 3:30. If you have multiple kids, you might need to be driving back and forth multiple times. The school day seems to have been designed with a stay-at-home mom in mind. Those days are mostly gone. We should rethink the school day like we re-thought women's roles in society, and recognize that both parents are typically working full time these days.

Cause Texas schools is stupid aF compared to Mass. I was a genius when I moved to Arizona in HS

As someone who has 2 kids ( one of which with autism) zoom schooling was the absolute worst for elementary aged kids. And honestly you’re a moron if you think otherwise. Kids do not have the capacity to sit in front of a screen to learn all day. Kids also need the social interaction and structure of in school learning(especially special needs children).

I don't disagree...I had 4 in elementary school doing it...it sucked... badly. It was a major reason for me taking them out of public school if that what the adults/admins thought was right for 6-10 year olds..after a summer to think things thru...

But I don't think it sucked for all of my high school students...for some it was a whole new world that was opened.for them and they thrived...these were my highly intelligent yet socially awkward folks.

I disagree with the last point...I don't think that there is a one size fits all approach. Especially because of special education.* Social interaction is just that social, school is not the only place that happens...for some sure. And it should be in the elementary school years, exactly as you frame it. After that I think things start to vary widely. I'd argue for more social time and less guided academic time, if they're going to be 6 hours in a building...more sports, less structured learning and more opened ended project/interest based learning. I worked at Voke school and it was great that the kids had 50% time in their vocational area...I'd advocate for more of that across all schools. Apprentice programs. Help kids identify what they like not force them into boxes.

But what you have right now is that it's virtually impossible for a regular teacher without a co-teacher who specializes in Spec Ed to accommodate all students...that's where "zoom" comes in for academics, taking some kids out of the classroom for some of the time.

Just my take..kids like your autistic child would most likely benefit from less bodies in the room vying for attention one way or another. I'm speaking mostly from the perspective of a high school teacher. Elementary school i definitely feel that online learning should be supplemental not the driver.

Maybe I'm a moron...

Lots of pedagogical experts in this sub.

Edit: wanted to clarify...

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My high school started at 9:00 am in Virginia. It was the elementary schools in the district that started at 7:40 am.

My six year old is on the bus at 7:24 and school starts at 7:40. He is the last stop so there are kids getting on before 7am. It's awful.

>more collaborative learning centers/community centers where kids could go rather than had to go…

Yeah as great as this sounds this wouldn’t work out. Unfortunately some if not most students even upperclassman high schoolers need structure. Giving them the ability to choose where they do and do not want to learn would most likely lead to low productivity and lower overall test scores.

I had to be in home room in high school by 6:40 (class of 08).

I did two years of elementary school in Florida and when I moved back to MA for middle school I was critically behind to the point where they almost kept me back lmao. I was a great student in New England beforehand and I remember Florida schools just being incredibly easy. That made me think I was a genius, but actually I wasn’t developing because I was just doing what I already knew how to do. But I got caught up thank goodness!

I do not miss waking up at 5:30 am to get ready and catch the bus. Phew!

There’s also a teacher shortage. Schools often want smaller class sizes and some have funding for it, to a degree but they can’t get adequate staffing.

I grew up in the Midwest. We started hugh school at 8:15 and finished at 3:15. Sports etc. ran 3:30-5 or 5:30. Winter sports are indoors anyway (swimming, basketball, hockey) so it didn’t matter that it was dark by the time practices ended.

That is a much better schedule for students, teachers, and parents than the outrageous 7:10-1:45 schedule Worcester has.

Less money on cops, more money on schools and busing. Easy.

my son did this, he said no one talked because they were all sleeping...

Ok. what about mandatory public schooling is capitalist? it's actually mandated by the state. I get that late stage capitalism is dysfunctional in a LOT of ways. Either way in capitalism, socialism, communism, totalitarianism your children are your future and benefit from education no matter the system. Yup some kids DO get warehoused in the school system, but they are not working in a mine at 8 years old. They are not working in a limb destroying factory at 9 years old. I live in a pretty goddam left state with an amazing school system that benefits as the people of my state have a LOT of post high school and post baccalaureate education. Educated (smart or otherwise) people also participate in dissent and protest their government. I had classes this big and we all turned out fine. also every class of my childs that was this big also had a teachers aide. Depending where you live and your school district. Class sizes get smaller in middle and high school as well. If your kid is warehoused in a school and is just putzing through the grades and not learning, you have responsibility as a parent for a large part of why that is, not capitalism.

7:25 for me

I worked with plenty of students that could. In the last few years, I had many students that were taking community college classes online with no adult supervision. It was all on them to ensure they did their work and attended classes.

It works in many other places. I'm looking into something called Brave Generation Academy for my kids for the high school years. https://bravegenerationacademy.com/home

We clearly aren't ready for any sort of change in how we school in the US. Between gun violence and a fundamental lack of trust in people, both students, educators, as well as institutions...we have very low social trust.

Judging from the reaction to my comments, it's clear that most people are super happy with how school worked for them and how it works for their kids. I'm in the minority.

My high school started at 7:00 on the dot. It was miserable and easily the worst part of high school

If MA pushes high school start times back to 9am, the kids would get so much smarter that they would make Finnish and Singaporean teens look dumb in comparison. Which would only fuel the egoism of MA. The state's collective ego would balloon to an unstable size, upon which it would collapse under its own weight, thereby creating a massive black hole.

I don't think high schoolers should have after school jobs. Summer internships are good, but no minor should have to work during the school year.

It's not a coincidence that the demographic of kids in America who do the least house chores and have the lowest rate of working a paid part time job also have the highest graduation rate and highest rate of eventual university completion.

They aren't. School buses aren't comfortable in the slightest. All that they end up being is repeated short 5 minute naps interrupted by waking up to try to adjust your body to not have as bad of a neck cramp.

They are so bouncy and relaxing, though!

...since when?

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My turn moved the HS start time late and kids are definitely missing the last block for sports.