Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j2veegp wrote
My condolences to you and your family. Seems like there have been a lot of young, seemingly healthy men who have collapsed and died in the last year.
[deleted] t1_j2wy3bv wrote
Why is this so heavily downvoted? Mubasher is only 1 of several young people from our community who passed recently and suddenly. It’s very, very depressing.
Ilanaspax t1_j2x3hkc wrote
Because that person is an anti vax troll
basicinsomniac t1_j2xbwzz wrote
I’ve always heard that workouts, even if they aren’t extreme, can cause sudden stoppages of the heart. These things happen unfortunately
fartuni4 OP t1_j2y13zo wrote
im not anti vaxx or claim to be anti science....i just noticed pattern. probably anecdotal
Ilanaspax t1_j2yty4d wrote
if you knew how Reddit worked you’d realize I wasn’t talking about you
Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j2xc870 wrote
Wow. Are you okay? Who hurt you? Such negativity in your life that you have to send the bots when all I’m doing is giving my condolences. I hope you never have to suffer such a loss.
Ilanaspax t1_j2yu49p wrote
Maybe don’t be so obvious with your anti vax talking points and people won’t be so mean to you :(
fartuni4 OP t1_j2y17m1 wrote
liberal white racism on jc.... what else can u expect?
PrincipleOfMoments t1_j2xdnbp wrote
It's being downvoted for the same reason that discussion about the Bills player who had a heart attack on the field on Monday night is limited to one, and only one, possible cause (a 1 in 200 million chance of getting hit at a very particular microsecond of the heartbeat). Even the mere act of wondering about potential causes of what appears to be an increase in the number of seemingly healthy, young people who are suffering heart attacks results in one being ostracized as a right wing conspiracy theorist. Just accept the company line and don't ask any questions.
Leanster2000 t1_j2y24fm wrote
The reason your statement is downvoted is that it is factually false. As in not true, not supported by any objective evidence, just ghoulish right wing wishful thinking. About 5 Americans under the age of 25 die every day from undiagnosed heart conditions, and this number was from BEFORE covid and covid vaccines. As for football collisions, young people die all the time in/due to football collisions (at an average rate of 12 per year!): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23477766/
moobycow t1_j2ybzlp wrote
And, even in a world where more young people are dying suddenly, why would the vaccine be a more likely culprit than, you know, the fucking virus.
PrincipleOfMoments t1_j2yxkyc wrote
You attack the poster's comment that it "seems like there are a lot of young, seemingly healthy, men who have collapsed and died in the past year" as being "factually false" by:
-
Proclaiming (without citation) a statistic that works out to nearly 2000 such young people dying per year (which could certainly seem high to some people);
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Admitting that your unsupported statistic is from pre-COVID times, and thus leaving unanswered the question of whether a greater or lesser number of such young people have been similarly dying over the past year, as was the point of the poster's comment.
Then, as a cherry on top, you put forth another statistic about deaths caused by football collisions each year, although the study to which you cite includes all types of deaths and not only heart attacks, meaning that the number 12 that you parrot is misleadingly high when compared to the point of the poster's comment.
How lucky for us commoners that you are here to educate us on "the facts".
Leanster2000 t1_j2zctup wrote
1)So when I provide you the citation you promise to crawl back under your rock? Do I have to embarrass you or do you realize google can be your friend?
2)You are the idiots claiming it is higher, where is your proof? Be aware, I am well versed on all the GBD BS and the sad cast of characters, the masters of misrepresentation. You have ZERO evidence. You have something you saw on TV, a frigging anecdote. You have to realize, to a scientist, you folks sound like complete and utter idiots. I don't expect laypeople to understand the intricacies of statistical analysis, but I do expect people who have no idea what they are talking about to STFU and let the adults speak.
The football deaths were as follows: "The most common causes of fatalities were cardiac failure (n = 100, 41.2%), brain injury (n = 62, 25.5%), heat illness (n = 38, 15.6%), SCT (n = 11, 4.5%), asthma and commotio cordis (n = 7 each, 2.9% each), embolism/blood clot (n = 5, 2.1%), cervical fracture (n = 4, 1.7%), and intra-abdominal injury, infection, and lightning (n = 3, 1.2% each)"
We haven't seen a NFL football on the field death since the 50's, so it seems odd and new, but the study show in college and high school, over 100 heart related deaths in the time span of the study. It happens all the time, you just don't notice it.
PrincipleOfMoments t1_j303hbt wrote
Your original response inaccurately makes it seem like there are on average 12 such cardiac football deaths per year, and when a lowly layperson has the temerity to point that out, you quote a portion of your cited study in what my limited capacity can only assume was an attempt to prove me wrong. And, while I surely can't possibly understand the intricacies of statistical analysis, I am able, with the aid of a calculator a trusted adult let me borrow, to figure out that 41.2% of 12 is less than 6.
You also unequivocally asserted that the poster was factually incorrect when he said he felt like there were more such deaths in the past year, but cited only to statistics from 3+ years ago. To an intellectually inferior non-scientist, that evidence doesn't actually have any weight since it doesn't include the relevant time period.
You are obviously (in the sense that you keep saying it) a person of superior intelligence, which makes a lesser person like myself wonder why your responses are so full of anger and insults and so lacking in accurate substance or even complete comprehension of the points I've made.
I'll just go back to my tv so I can misapprehend some other story that I see.
lavidadida t1_j2ybljz wrote
Yes, covid vaccines are safe and effective. Just like thalidomide, Aduhelm, and Vioxx. Don't forget OxyContin is not addictive and pain is the fifth vital sign. And remember to eat plenty of processed grains like in the base of the USDA food pyramid!
Leanster2000 t1_j2yewpv wrote
The one bad thing about Reddit is the anonymity frees people to spout their ignorance (in this case science) without any true fear of embarrassment. To a scientist, the comparisons you make of covid vaccines to a variety of unrelated therapeutics is so idiotic it makes one want to cry in despair over the failures of teaching STEM in our educational system.
lavidadida t1_j2yhkih wrote
There are tons of cases where the scientific authorities have said something was safe only to find it was not - especially those in the US government that work hand in hand with the companies they are supposed to be regulating. This process is political, not scientific, and I am not making any point about the biology or chemistry involved so you can stop hiding behind that.
Also - many countries don't recommend the vaccines for either those under 30, under 18, or recommend Pfizer over Moderna due to risks of side effects. Why do you think they do that?
Leanster2000 t1_j2yq30v wrote
You clearly don't understand the difference between a therapeutic drug and a vaccine. You realize that vaccine doesn't actually attack any virus, right? It is an immune system trigger. It triggers and goes away - mRNA is insanely fragile, it is why it took so many years to make an effective vaccine from it. All known negative side effects for any vaccine in history is within two months. There is no biological mechanism for anything longer. Post-covid vaccine safety survelliance was done by a wide variety of independent university and international labs, all showing the safety profile is as previously stated. Stop hiding behind your lack of knowledge of biology or chemistry as an excuse to spout BS.
That a few countries have decided against spending the $40/shot for boosters for young people is an economic decision that IMHO ignores the impact of long covid on young people, to their peril. There has never been a legitimate study that shows for any age/gender cohort that is more dangerous to take the vaccine than to not.
lavidadida t1_j2z2alf wrote
When did I ever say anything about a vaccine attacking a virus? Or a timeline for vaccine injury? You're just throwing out unrelated facts as if they are a rebuttal to me since you don't want to admit - vaccine side effects are a real, but rare, thing AND the government agencies tasked with regulating the pharma industry have made huge mistakes before.
You chalk up the decisions of other governments to economics but assume the US government makes decisions based purely on science and in the interests of health - the drugs and the USDA food pyramid I listed are exactly the reasons to be suspicious of this.
Anyone who pays attention knows that the claims regarding efficacy and existence of side effects have shifted over time. But we are supposed to believe the current claims 100% and not ask any questions.
For example - May 2021 from CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices - “Careful investigation indicates [myocarditis] did not occur more frequently among young people who were vaccinated than among young people who were not vaccinated,” said Dr. William Schaffner, an ACIP member. “So there is no causal link to the vaccination.” https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/health/vaccine-myocarditis-kids/index.html
Today - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html
A review of vaccine safety data in VAERS from December 2020–August 2021 found a small but increased risk of myocarditis after mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. Over 350 million mRNA vaccines were given during the study period and CDC scientists found that rates of myocarditis were highest following the second dose of an mRNA vaccine among males in the following age groups https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
Leanster2000 t1_j2zeo9s wrote
Comparing a vaccine to therapeutics is concrete proof you have no idea what you are talking about. You might as well compare vaccines to vitamins, lead paint, ball point pens.
If you understood statistics, how rare vaccine induced myocarditis is, the slightly modified stance over time makes sense. BECAUSE IT IS SO RARE IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO BUILD UP ENOUGH CASES TO BE STATSTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. If you were an intellectually honest person, you would also note that the odds of myocarditis are far higher, even in the young male cohort, from myocarditis from unvaccinated covid, and that vaccine induced myocarditis is far milder than "natural" covid myocarditis (10x less death rate). But let's not talk about that.
lavidadida t1_j2ziyas wrote
Yes - and in May 2021, you would have said "Stop saying vaccine myocarditis happens - studies show it does not and the CDC says there is no causal link." You would have been wrong, and complaining about how no one knows anything about science.
Re: therapeutics - You either can't read or are deliberately misinterpreting me. I also mentioned processed grains and the USDA food pyramid - you think I was comparing a vaccine to a loaf of bread? It's about the regulatory process and the politics of US health advice.
Leanster2000 t1_j2zqx0c wrote
You need to take another look at the data - for older age ranges myocarditis is at background levels - by May 2021, only older and middle age adults had real access to the vaccine, so the the statement there is no link was 100% true at the time. Only when enough young males got the vaccine was there a statistically significant indication that the rate was higher than background. Nothing nefarious there, just math. And again, repeating the point you so obviously sidestepped, the odds of myocarditis are far higher, even in the young male cohort, from myocarditis from unvaccinated covid, and vaccine induced myocarditis is far milder than "natural" covid myocarditis (10x less death rate).
I am not misinterpreting you. The approval process is totally different for vaccines vs therapeutics. There is zero reason to believe they should be the same or compared. The dangerous politics isn't coming from the scientist. There is only one political party that found it worthwhile to shore up the base by seeding doubt in a lifesaving vaccine at the cost of the lives of their own constituents.
https://journals.plos.org/globalpublichealth/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgph.0000557
lavidadida t1_j30pgfc wrote
You are truly dumb as a rock. The fact that a study had not yet been conducted linking the covid vaccine to myocarditis in May 2021 does not mean that a link did not exist. It did exist then as it exists now - studies are an attempt to determine reality, they do not create facts. Objective reality exists, and scientific studies are attempts to discern that reality. Authorities lied, at minimum about the degree of certainty they could provide.
The FDA runs both approval processes. Feel free to throw out a bunch of irrelevant facts about those processes in response. Kind of like you throw out a complete non-sequitur about political parties and then link to a social science article with absolute garbage methodology. This gives me a good idea of what kind of nonsense you consider science lol. Study of covid mortality that doesn't account for age hahahahaha
Leanster2000 t1_j31qkyh wrote
You are simply not good at math. You realize it is possible that the/any vaccine has a 1 in a 100,000,000 chance of causing _insertyourrarediseasehere_. Until you have a couple of billion doses distributed, you don't know if it is statistically relevant or not. At the point in time the statement was made it was entirely correct with the statistics at that time. The fact that it took a lot longer for these rare side effects to be shown underscores exactly how rare they are and makes my point stronger.
The political impact of covid mortality has been presented by a number of researchers, and the effect is undeniably dramatic, there are others as well, but I guess it is all just a big conspiracy:
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w30512/w30512.pdf
https://www.axios.com/2022/03/25/coronavirus-pandemics-politics-masks-vaccines-deaths
lavidadida t1_j2yjg2i wrote
BTW one of the things I actually learned when studying evolution in our educational system is that scientists have never been able to successfully produce effective vaccines for coronaviruses like the common cold, because they mutate too fast.
I initially thought that it looked like there have been breakthroughs in the last ten years. But turns out my science education was correct, and the sloppy propaganda cranked out by the pharma industry, the government agencies they own, and the media they pay off was wrong!
Leanster2000 t1_j2yrirj wrote
Do you actually expect people to believe with a straight face that the covid vaccines are a failure? While effectiveness against transmission declined after 6 months, effectiveness against hospitalization and death remained high, especially when boosted. By conservative counts the vaccines have saved on the order of 2-3 million American lives, but who cares, right?
PrincipleOfMoments t1_j2yz9hh wrote
The "legitimate scientists" and the "legitimate government officuals" and the "legitimate media" all told us the vaccine prevented infection and transmission, and then insisted that every person owed their fellow citizens a duty to get vaccinated to stop the spread.
18 months later, these same "legitimate" sources acknowledged that the vaccine manufacturers never included the prevention of infection/transmission in any of their studies so there was zero data to support any of those claims.
But, yes, do keep telling us about how ignorant, foolish and/or conspiratorial anyone who questions what they are told by any source, including your multiple, unsupported opinions above, must be.
Leanster2000 t1_j2zas0z wrote
Ah, the intricate dance of the cherry picker. CDC never initially claimed transmission data because it is impossible to know before the vaccine is released - this is done in surveillance mode. And indeed, for the first 6 month or so, before the delta variant it did indeed prevent transmission. Concrete data in Israel, as case count dropped to 30 per day (same pop as NJ) despite only 60% of the residents getting the vaccine. This is when the vaccine greatly prevented cases + transmissions (the 90% number) communications were out. Then the delta variant and further variants came, eroding case and transmission effectiveness, but hospitalization and death prevention remained high. But all of this will slide off you like water, and you can go back to your ignorant, foolish and conspiratorial ways.
PrincipleOfMoments t1_j2zyxqf wrote
That is a wonderful-looking response, full of plenty of statistics that we'll just assume are accurate because you wrote them.
It is not at all, however, a response to the point I made, which was that while all of the sources you would deem to be legitimate told us that we needed to take the vaccine because it would stop transmission, they knew that ZERO studies had been done about preventing transmission.
After the big pharma companies expressly admitted that a few months ago, your hallowed sources changed their narratives in a manner that would make Orwell proud and started acting as if they'd focused solely on reducing severity/death from the beginning.
Even ignorant, conspiratorial fools have memories of the mantras about our duty to others that were incessantly repeated throughout 2021.
I know it sucks when you can't intimidate or embarrass the great unwashed into accepting your smugly superior take on things, so I'll just slip back into the primordial ooze from whence I came and leave you be.
Leanster2000 t1_j303ly9 wrote
The statistics are freely available. Google it. BTW your memory sucks. They could not and did not promise transmission before the vaccine was in distribution. They could hope and assume, based on the % of cases prevented, that is was very likely transmission would be prevented, but they couldn't guarantee until it was distributed widely. In Feb 2021 Fauci called it "the looming question". By May 2021 the case collapse in Israel was so dramatic, effectiveness against transmission was proven for that original variant. And then of course the variants came.
lavidadida t1_j30mnab wrote
Everyone should have known the variants were coming, because of the exact point I made above about the speed of mutations in coronaviruses.
And anyone paying attention knows public health authorities either didn't know what they were doing, lied, or both. You can keep covering for them, enjoy it.
Leanster2000 t1_j31p0ty wrote
Nobody, including yourself, knew 1) what the speed of mutation would be 2) the impact of the mutations. There were no major mutations for quite a while, and the eventual mutations were able to evade infection but not protection against severe disease and death. No one could have guaranteed that the protection against death would remain, but it has and as a consequence we have saved millions of American lives. Sorry if this angers you.
Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j2yvcty wrote
Yes! The vaccine saved many at the cost of a few hundred or thousand young people. Well worth the cost! As Spock would say: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”
Leanster2000 t1_j2z9hm5 wrote
Literally zero evidence for that statement, so Spock would say "he's (brain) dead Jim".
Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j2zago8 wrote
Spock never said that so like much of the diatribe you’re spouting… Fake news!!! There is an increased risk of myocarditis after taking the MRNA vaccine. This is a verifiable fact!
Leanster2000 t1_j2zddpi wrote
Even in the highest risk cohort it is orders of magnitude less than covid itself, that is a verifiable fact! Even if you get vaccine induced myocarditis, it is 10x less lethal than natural disease induced myocarditis, that is is a verifiable fact! Or do you think you can live in a world when you will never get covid? I guess if you get on the Enterprise with Spock...
fartuni4 OP t1_j2vqpd5 wrote
i know...i am not anti vaxx but definitely sketch.
FelixTaran t1_j2walko wrote
There is more of a correlation between COVID and blood clots than between vaccines and blood clots.
My deepest condolences on your loss.
GeorgeWBush2016 t1_j2wqzdf wrote
How were you able to determine his cause of death?
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