Submitted by HobokenJ t3_zptkki in jerseycity
Comments
moobycow t1_j0v3mch wrote
It's kind of a problem that the TPK gets paid by the amount of traffic it generates.
nk1 t1_j0vxlmo wrote
Yeah I’m not sure what all this harping on the environment is. Yes, that’s incredibly important but the better sell to everyone is “this is a project with no consideration for the real bottleneck”. No matter how left or right you are, one can agree that the tunnel is the issue. Not the approaching road.
Accomplished_Day2991 t1_j0xebf0 wrote
Right like let’s just postpone the bottleneck to Marin. That will fix it bc there isn’t one there, or at the entrance to the tunnel nope no bottle neck there. This sounds like a great fix. Just push the bottleneck back 5 min for 10.7 BILLION.
HudsonRiverMonster t1_j0uiwn1 wrote
No, it cannot. But the Governor wants to throw red meat to the construction unions because he wants to run for President.
Hell no.
Mr. “progressive” Governor who cares so much about climate change when he wants to pander, but can’t seem to find the spine to say no to billions of dollars of spending roads for cars and fossil fuel plants that poison the air.
spypol t1_j0unns2 wrote
Can't the construction unions pivot to build more massive transit infrastructure?
fandagan t1_j0uqueo wrote
That would require an amount of effort and organization not few would be willing to undertake.
down_up__left_right t1_j0vpngy wrote
> No, it cannot. But the Governor wants to throw red meat to the construction unions because he wants to run for President.
If the goal is just to create construction jobs and it has to be on a highway then do something with some benefits by burying the lanes between 78/139 and the Tunnel. Then upzone that whole area for dense housing.
HudsonRiverMonster t1_j0vui95 wrote
Damn look at you making all that sense. The point isn’t for the plan to improve anything it’s about greasing the right palms.
HappyArtichoke7729 t1_j10bu4y wrote
This is the way.
tdrhq t1_j0unj7k wrote
Phil Murphy is thinking too small.
We should just raze down the whole of Jersey City, and make it into a giant parking lot for cars going into NYC.
That should fix things.
(/s)
kx2w t1_j0vcawk wrote
Phil 'Robert Moses' Murphy
HobokenJ OP t1_j0uhe3f wrote
I voted for Murphy. Twice. But this boondoggle prelude to a Presidential run is appalling. There is zero justification for this project.
podkayne3000 t1_j0ummx5 wrote
I wish Murphy the most negative possible outcome allowed by subreddit rules.
[deleted] t1_j0umjas wrote
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viniciusah t1_j0ukx7h wrote
It's not about fixing traffic. It's about lining pockets.
Brudesandwich t1_j0ukub0 wrote
No
SonOfMcGee t1_j0urbbr wrote
- 100% of the traffic in question is going through the Holland Tunnel.
- The Holland Tunnel is not being widened.
- The only explanation for this project is to spend money on building… something… for the sake of building something.
All the news stories covering this project should be one short paragraph. It’s understandably stupid on a very high conceptual level. The additional concerns about environmental and socioeconomic impacts, while valid, aren’t even necessary to bring up.
If the powers that be really want to funnel money to the construction industry they could pay them $5B to dig a big hole and another $5B to fill it back in.
down_up__left_right t1_j0vt91y wrote
> If the powers that be really want to funnel money to the construction industry they could pay them $5B to dig a big hole and another $5B to fill it back in.
But actually it would be more useful to pay them to dig a big hole between 78/139 and the tunnel. Put the approach to the tunnel there. Then cover it back up. Would open up the land above which is in a great location if not for those lanes.
moobycow t1_j0uvmqh wrote
I like how they pose the question as if fixing traffic has anything to do with this. They could fix traffic tomorrow, make one lane a dedicated bus lane and they move many multiple the number of people into NYC and get rid of a huge amount of traffic. They don't want to fix traffic, they want to generate traffic because the TPK gets paid by the car.
urbanlife78 t1_j0w3eyu wrote
What about expanding the PATH?
RadicalAppa t1_j0ujla8 wrote
No
LimeyYank91 t1_j0v2eee wrote
Wonder what the cost would be of burying i-78 under 13th st, disconnecting the tunnel from downtown (maybe an on-ramp at Monmouth?).
Get a lot of commuter traffic off of local streets, and takes stop lights off of i-78.
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Would that be a $10bn project?
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What would the land value be in the area between 10th and 18th st? That whole area has been starved by the tunnel entrance and is a bunch of gas stations and car-centric retail. How much wealth could be unlocked by converting that into a dense neighborhood if the commuters are all buried away?
donnie_trampovic t1_j0wn12l wrote
The article mentioned that there was a plan to replace a portion of BQE in Brooklyn with a tunnel at an estimated cost of $11B. I would guess it would be comparable to that.
[deleted] t1_j0up1bx wrote
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Billsworth29 t1_j0v2zu0 wrote
Don’t forget… the holland tunnel has had half of its entry lanes closed for over a year now…. But sure make a bigger highway, would love to wait in a bigger line of cars all trying to merge into the 3 entry toll lanes
SonOfMcGee t1_j0vdfai wrote
And huge backups are often caused by a shitshow on the NYC side with gridlock on the exit.
They could pay a few full time cops to just babysit the lights and stop people from blocking the intersections at Hudson or Varick.
Knobbies4Ever t1_j0uuago wrote
Good to see the Times strongly calling out Murphy's hypocrisy on climate and environmental justice.
Ok_Raisin_8796 t1_j0vpeza wrote
imagine how much nj transit could accomplish with that money rather than some widening that’s not going to fix anything
Nexis4Jersey t1_j0wbhia wrote
10 Billion would be enough to fund the following NJT Projects
- Northern Branch LRT
- Newark-Paterson LRT
- Passaic-Bergen-Hudson LRT
- West Orange Extension LRT
- Newark-Elizabeth-Cranford LRT
- West Trenton Line
- MOM Rail Network (Central Jersey)
- PA Rail Access Expansion to Scranton & Lehigh Valley (Split with PA/Fed funding)
- Glassboro LRT
- Bus Rapid Transit ways along South Orange Ave, Central Ave in Newark, JFK Boulevard in Hudson County, Route 4 in Passaic-Bergen
If he were real serious about being green and expanding the infrastructure in the state he would have aggressive funded that list which with matching federal funding should have largely been built by now with the exception of a few long shelved projects. All the shelved road and highway projects under Christie have been funded and most of them will be done by next year. Around 7 billion in total...so why hasn't NJT received the same treatment.
certifiedforgedcheck t1_j0vfemu wrote
For $10B we could build a new tunnel. Such a waste of money to funnel cars into the same bottleneck. Would make more sense to build a tunnel with an entrance by Liberty Science Center, built for large transport vehicles, then convert the Holland Tunnels into bidirectional pedestrian/bike/micro mobility tunnels. It would reduce maintenance costs associated with vehicles, such as road wear and emission ventilation. Can the Holland Tunnel take increased throughput of even heavier vehicles over the next 50 years?
FinalIntern8888 t1_j0wgs9n wrote
A tunnel by LSC is smart. Closer to the ports. Not happening in our lifetimes.
certifiedforgedcheck t1_j0wt6vp wrote
We could also then take down the elevated highway and reclaim the land.
RedForman1776 t1_j0w2g8b wrote
Build a footbridge from Jersey city to Manhattan
Ricky469 t1_j0wx5ht wrote
Since there's no possible expansion of the Holland Tunnel or Lincoln Tunnel, expanding the turnpike just creates bigger traffic jams in Jersey City. Manhattan can only contain so many vehicles anyway. Better mass transit is the way to go. The new rail tunnel is finally being built . Christie canceled ARC 12 years ago in one of the most shortsighted decisions ever. That tunnel would be done now. The new one won't be done until the mid 2030s. The current tunnels are over 100 years old and were damaged by Hurricane Sandy, if one or both fail no new highway will be able to take the traffic into New York. I personally believe the best short term solution is more ferries from varied locations in New Jersey. Not a perfect idea but a good way to take stress off roads and train lines.
Bellaboo1230 t1_j0uw7do wrote
Can $10B buy a nuke so we can start from scratch? If so, sorry still No.
Sybertron t1_j0w878v wrote
10 billion would be much better spent building lots of multistory (ideally affordable) housing there and removing the need for folks to be driving into town in the first place.
This is the kind of proactive instead of retroactive thinking we need to do.
All the photos in the article just highlight this for me, instead of highways there we could have HOUSING. 10 billion in housing would be a big deal for this city, rather than a slightly wider highway to make it easier for people who dont live here and often aren't stopping here.
Swaggu530 t1_j0ukibr wrote
No because it will all just end up in the hands of some mobbed up Sanzari affiliate
doglywolf t1_j0vqo48 wrote
Anyone with half a brain cell can see its a giant waste of money. It will get thousand of cars down to the entrance of the tunnel faster...and make a bigger longer parking lot.
If you cram 2 lanes into 8 back into 2 lanes of the tunnel--sometimes one.... making 4 lanes to get to the 8 lanes is not going to fix anything when its those 8 lanes fully backed up . . But leave to state to think spending 10 billion dollars getting people to that few block stretch of the 8 lanes would speed things up some how.
Take that money and build a new tunnel .
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EDIT: Lets not even mentioned the 8 lanes were cut down to 5-6 at the entranced to make a reserve area for EMS vehicles years back .
Economy-Cupcake808 t1_j0v1mmi wrote
Crazy how despite all the traffic it’s still the fastest way into the city if you don’t live near grove st, Newport, or journal square.
JeromePowellAdmirer t1_j0wj5xd wrote
I yearn for the world where saying "the city" in Jersey City refers to downtown and not NYC
DoxxingShillDownvote t1_j0vsftv wrote
Rule of thumb: the answer to any news headline question posed is almost always "no"
well_damm t1_j0uljjr wrote
We’ve outgrown our current footprint. Traffic isn’t gonna get better. There’s not enough space on the roads for the amount of people flowing in and out of the holland / Lincoln.
HobokenJ OP t1_j0uno4e wrote
Right. But expanding this stretch does nothing to alleviate the issue. They can't add lanes to the Holland Tunnel approach. All this does is make the existing bottleneck--which is brutal--much, much worse.
well_damm t1_j0uol48 wrote
I was agreeing that expanding this area is a waste of money. And more than likely 1/3 of that money is just going into randoms pockets
Knobbies4Ever t1_j0utryj wrote
The pockets getting that money are anything but random.
PoopFartPatrol t1_j0wkvtn wrote
Highway turning into a local road with traffic lights leading into the river is the issue. It should be an bridge that goes over downtown
donnie_trampovic t1_j0wnasp wrote
FIFTEEN YEARS! Are they nuts? I think this is the next CA high speed rail project here.
> “It is quite ambitious and it’s needed,” the governor said of the project this summer, adding that he believed that in the 15 years the widening is expected to take, there will be more electric vehicles, potentially reducing the volume of emissions from gas-powered cars.
keepseeing444 t1_j0uwu14 wrote
Murphy has been THE worst governor for Jersey City - the fact that we keep voting for this union pawn is just so tragic. He’s so bad I miss the days of Christie sunbathing in a closed beach.
lux-lp t1_j0vgw2f wrote
We need a twin Holland tunnel
hctibau t1_j0waji5 wrote
everyone already knows the answer and it’s crazy that the people planning this have no idea what’s going to happen
gigiwasabi_jc t1_j0yw47w wrote
They know what’s going to happen.
TomGNYC t1_j0wpq10 wrote
no
fartuni4 t1_j16wsn9 wrote
They put it right by the part of downtown that becomes non white....segregation highway
boojieboy666 t1_j0w5ci9 wrote
It can but not the way they plan on doing it.
[deleted] t1_j0uwcra wrote
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romanpieces t1_j0uikki wrote
> Opponents argue that widening the turnpike will only invite additional traffic, worsening backups and the idling of vehicles on the approach to the Holland Tunnel, which is not being expanded.
Well there's your answer