Submitted by Historical_Times_29 t3_xy2xpi in jerseycity
jerseyboiii t1_irge91n wrote
Gotta be better than what we have lol
Ilanaspax t1_irgod93 wrote
50% of charter schools close by the 15 year mark
zmchiban t1_irgz5wx wrote
And how many of our public schools would have or should have closed by now if they weren’t kept on life support by an incompetent BOE and city government?
Not saying charter schools are good or bad but the idea that they don’t last as long as failing schools (even if true) isn’t a compelling argument that they’re worse than the alternative.
Ilanaspax t1_irh464t wrote
The fact that they are statistically proven to fail isn't a compelling argument to not keep diverting funds from public education to fund these sham schools? lol
The teachers aren't even required to have bachelor's degrees to teach and they aren't legally required to accommodate special ed students- how could that possibly be an improvement?
zmchiban t1_irh4iq0 wrote
Let’s talk statistics — a Stanford study in 2015 concluded that urban charter school students perform better than their public school peers.
There are plenty of arguments that the funding could be put to better use. But the argument that charter schools are by definition worse than our failing public schools is just wrong.
“Our findings show urban charter schools in the aggregate provide significantly higher levels of annual growth in both math and reading compared to their TPS peers. Specifically, students enrolled in urban charter schools experience 0.055 standard deviations (s.d.’s) greater growth in math and 0.039 s.d.’s greater growth in reading per year than their matched peers in TPS. These results translate to urban charter students receiving the equivalent of roughly 40 days of additional learning per year in math and 28 additional days of learning per year in reading.”
Ilanaspax t1_irh5g7z wrote
Wow you mean schools that are able to skim all the best students and not accept any with special needs or learning disabilities perform better than public schools that are legally required to accept and accommodate all students? You don't say!
zmchiban t1_irh5l48 wrote
Okay so we agree they perform better. But you still think they shouldn’t exist? Got it.
Ilanaspax t1_irh6xkq wrote
You're so close to connecting the dots buddy. Now let's work this out together - if charter schools only accept students without learning disabilities (or any other special needs that would affect a student's "performance") and at the same time public schools have to accept all students (including those with learning disabilities who may not perform as well as neurotypical students) do you really think the charter school students are performing better as a result of the quality of education? Or is it because charter schools aren't legally required to accommodate any low-performing students like public schools are?
Feel free to mention where you think the special needs students that charter schools don't have to accommodate will go once charter lobbyists successfully defund public education.
mooseLimbsCatLicks t1_irhbvo7 wrote
You keep bringing up special needs kids as if JC BOE does right by special needs kids. They canceled school for > 1 year fuck them. They canceled kids therapies, literally medically necessary therapies that by law are supposed to be provided. then they do speech therapy while wearing a mask. Or on zoom. Beyond useless. Kids didn’t get their PT. Stop using the special needs kids card because JC BOE never gave a flying fuck. Bayonne brought in kids for therapies even while they were remote. JC didn’t do that. Because they literally did not care.
I will always promote anything other than the status quo for jersey city schools.
Anything new, fucking take it because the people who run it currently are fucking morons.
Ilanaspax t1_irikd8u wrote
And yet your solution is to bring in charter schools that serve NO special needs students and continue to pull much needed funding from public education and make the existing problem worse?
Your issue is with JC but you’re so emotional you’re talking out of your ass and acting like dismantling public schools is the solution. This is exactly how it works when social services are preyed upon by corporations for profit - do whatever they can to make it so bad it becomes a privatized for-profit service and your just the kind of shmuck to lap it up. There are active lobbyists making this happen with political ties - you’re just eating it up.
mooseLimbsCatLicks t1_irisrb9 wrote
The kids in this school will be JC kids getting a JC public school education.
Our school system is lacking the actual infrastructure of school buildings. This new physical school addresses a critical infrastructure need, and will reduce overcrowding in the schools.
The public funding the school will use is an appropriate use of public school funds since its a JC public school.
The only thing you mentioned that is a downside is possible lack of IEP services, which you're not even sure about. But even if there is no IEP or special ed services, it is not a loss of services to the entire district, as this is a new school. And here is from their website anyway , seems like they will have some services"My child has an IEP. Will this school be a good fit for them?
Kindle Education is committed to serving all students, including those with special needs and learning differences. Our emphasis on personalized learning and low adult to student ratio may make us a good fit for students who experience challenges in a traditional classroom setting. If you have more specific questions about the services we provide or about your child’s specific needs, we recommend that you reach out to us using the contact information below so that we can answer your questions."
Yea I am emotional about the schools here. There was a lot of damage done that did not need to occur. A lot of my patients got screwed due to stupid, fearful and selfish decisions. I myself can pay for the privilege of a good education for my kids. I can pay for a private school that actually opened and let the kids in to school. Status quo of JC public schools will not provide a great education to majority of kids in JC. Whats the fix? Keep doing the same shit? This school will likely provide a good education to the kids who are enrolled in it. Thats why I support it.
I am not at all convinced that this is a black and white issue. Charter schools BAD! is not helpful when its pretending that JCBOE good! I am for increasing the educational attainment of the kids of JC, whether or not that involves the maintenance of current school governance, school administration structure , political structure etc. I am not anti union or pro privatization, but the current setup does not meet the needs of JC. The state could take over, I would be happy. A completely new school board I would be happy. Mayoral control of school board, I would be happy. JC needs better outcomes and a mix of charter and non charter schools seems like a good idea to me. We already have charters and they seem to generally have better outcomes.
I dont know what your plan is to improve outcomes, besides complaining about every new school being constructed. I think neither one of us is directly involved in making these decisions, so our argument is moot... but yea I think continued experimentation is warranted in JC.
Ilanaspax t1_irixl9l wrote
Another valueless comment. I’m not against new schools being built I’m against charter schools replacing public schools that serve all students which is what this leads to. Do some research on how charter schools operate and why they hire lobbyists. Or how they swept in after hurricane Katrina and destroyed the LA public school system there. It’s a concentrated effort to dismantle public Ed for corporate profit and you’re eating it up.
A corporation has even less oversight than a public school so this is a bad solution if that’s your issue.
If school infrastructure is the issue maybe look at what we spend money on in this city and all the handouts developers get while they “make the city better”. How much money was that Rook the JCPD bought? How much was the pedestrian plaza that took years to build and is already getting torn up?
zmchiban t1_irh9qzl wrote
Every claim you’ve made so far is wrong. First you said charter schools perform worse. Wrong.
Now you’re saying this charter school won’t accept special needs kids. A two-minute search of Kindle Education’s website shows you’re wrong again:
“My child has an IEP. Will this school be a good fit for them?
Kindle Education is committed to serving all students, including those with special needs and learning differences. Our emphasis on personalized learning and low adult to student ratio may make us a good fit for students who experience challenges in a traditional classroom setting. If you have more specific questions about the services we provide or about your child’s specific needs, we recommend that you reach out to us using the contact information below so that we can answer your questions.”
Ilanaspax t1_iril69f wrote
All of this is widely known if you know remotely anything about how charter schools operate and the political influence they’ve worked so hard to gain.
I’ve worked in education - they can write whatever they want on the website because it’s a private company. But if your kid has needs they cannot accommodate you will have to send your child elsewhere. That is just how it works because they are not set up to serve special needs nor are they legally required to accommodate all students. They can write whatever they want on their website so people who know nothing will believe it.
Perhaps look up some information about charter schools vs public schools instead of copying and pasting random shit you googled?
zmchiban t1_irl6m88 wrote
Ah yes, “all of this is widely known” — a reliable proxy for real data!
keepseeing444 t1_irkyuut wrote
What percentage of students in JCPS have special needs to base your entire argument on some likely tiny fraction outlier? You do know that charters are lottery based right? Like random, luck of the draw admission. In NYC charters cater predominantly to low income black and hispanic students bc their zoned public schools are such shitshow which is the case in many poor or working class urban neighborhoods. Apparently to you it’s some fraudulent capitalist endeavor but the reality is the charter students outperform their public schools peers in NYC.
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