The Campaign for Eminent Domain: A Petition for the State of NJ to Acquire Fireman's Golf Course to Expand Liberty State Park

Submitted by nuncio_populi t3_120tl4u in jerseycity

Paul Fireman and the People's Park Foundation have long campaigned for the privatization and development of large parts of Liberty State Park. Their tactics have included pitting diverse groups from across the region against each other in the hopes of achieving their ultimate goal: private development on public land.

In a spirit of reconciliation, I humbly propose the state of NJ use its powers of eminent domain to expand Liberty State Park by acquiring Fireman's golf course. The additional acreage will provide lots of land for active recreation for the community. And the state of the art club house will become NJ's preeminent cultural center, a venue with sweeping views of the park, Jersey City, and New York.

Support the petition now to expand Liberty State Park!

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jersey-city-park t1_jdizg7k wrote

Seems like an amazing way to waste tax payer’s money on lawsuits

−27

surrendertomychill t1_jdj3mrm wrote

Surely eminent domain isn’t even necessary, after all Fireman clearly cares about the youth of Greenville more than anything else so he should happily turn the land over for their recreation

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jzini t1_jdj4g38 wrote

Oh this would be good for the children of Jersey City to learn golf! I heard that he really cares about the kids and he’s a humanitarian right?!

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjci90 wrote

Anyone have Hurley’s contact info? I’m sure we could pool some money to buy his support.

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doglywolf t1_jdjds55 wrote

LMAO this is hilarious id love to see this take root. Never will because money talks . I know its done in Jest but it would be the worlds greatest David VS Goliath story if some random Rich person or powerful politician randomly decided to back this and it really got going lol .

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It would be the greatest Karma ever for him to lose the golf course from pushing too hard to own the park

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjejzg wrote

Replying to doglywolf (#2,341,879)

Let’s spread the word. I’m sure there is someone out there whom Fireman has made an enemy of.

Edit: unfortunately, you are right Fireman has everyone in his pocket. But we can make his efforts look ridiculous along the way.

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fastAFguy t1_jdjggko wrote

🤡🤡🤡

Peak entitlement and outjerked. Eminent Domain would cost the City 10s of billions of dollars ad years of lawsuits.

−14

PhilipRobertson t1_jdjjd5j wrote

If Fireman is as concerned as he’s made suggested about the perils of youth having no where to go, I’m also looking forward to his young golfer’s education and scholarship program at the tragically underused Liberty National pitch and putt course.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjjl46 wrote

I added a link to the petition on all the People’s Park YouTube videos.

If anyone has social media (I do not aside from Reddit) and wants to post the petition on their Facebook and Twitter, please be my guest.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjkzvt wrote

Replying to LincolnPorkRoll (#2,342,687)

Hey — we’d love to host an event. We’re thinking of shooting some videos of school children dressed up in their football gear begging Paul Fireman to donate his land to the people of NJ. That shouldn’t be a problem, should it?

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paul-e-walnts t1_jdjmhiu wrote

Surely there’s a better action to put energy into than something that would never happen. This is an easy way for opposition to Fireman to lose credibility.

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JerseyJedi t1_jdjmwh6 wrote

You should share this in the NJ subreddit and other local towns’ subreddits! It would be such poetic justice if this happened.

Paul Fireman: We need active recreation! So let’s use eminent domain to give me part of LSP so I can expand my members-only golf course!

New Jersey: Hmm, if you care so much about recreation for the general public, then why don’t we just eminent domain your golf course and add it to LSP? If you really mean what you say about being so passionate about it, we’re sure you won’t mind!

Paul Fireman: * surprised Pikachu facial expression *

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjqziu wrote

Replying to paul-e-walnts (#2,342,918)

You're right this will never happen but the petition isn't about feasibility. It's about two things: 1) showing that there is diverse community resistance to Fireman's plans to privatize LSP; and 2) if he really wanted to build a resource for the community, he could do so overnight on his own land.

He's a billionaire with immeasurable wealth and vast real estate holdings. Instead, he devotes his time and energy trying to take away land from the people of NJ. I can't think of a better fight to fight, even if it is quixotic tilting at windmills.

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Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_jdjv5zz wrote

You do realize "Eminent Domain" isn't stealing, the state would have to pay market price for that land? That's why we don't have parks in every privately owned vacant lot. Money.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdjwvbw wrote

Replying to Blecher_onthe_Hudson (#2,343,947)

I’m well aware what eminent domain is but it can force the sale of the property at FMV.

It’s also not really the point of the petition. It’s more a statement about how ridiculous it is that a billionaire covets are park when he could use his own land to “help the children.”

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kenalt1818 t1_jdka5cs wrote

They should use the land to build more housing. Jersey city needs housing. Not golf course that no one living there can afford.

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AndyIsNotOnReddit t1_jdlckgg wrote

I posted this in the other thread, but for those that are worried about cost:

You’re already paying for it through the massive public infrastructure required: the roads, the police, the sewage, the millions of gallons of water a golf course requires a year, the huge environmental impacts: https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/07/17/golf-is-a-giant-board-game-damaging-the-planet-time-for-it-to-go

All paid for by your tax dollars so some rich guys can play golf on some prime land next to NYC. The best part? You’re too poor to visit this club, you pay for it, they wouldn’t even let you step foot inside of it.

Public park would cost the tax payers way less than continuing to fund the infrastructure requires for this golf course. It’s a dying sport, it’s terrible for the environment, there are much better use of this land that would benefit the public.

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skaleywags t1_jdm72dl wrote

Liberty National is hosting an LPGA event in May where the top 24 junior female players in the country get to compete with the LPGA pros. That's kinda cool. The fact is the place was a total dump before the golf course. Hell, there's an argument that the entirety of Jersey City has gotten significantly better and more livable since the investment was made to build the course and beautify LSP. There are about 25 people in LSP at any given time...making more to do and easier access might be great for the park. Either way, bringing professional golf events to JC has clearly done some good. I really don't understand how of the zillions of rich assholes galavanting around the NYC area doing horrible things for their own benefit, this one gets so much attention. I see a lot of positive that has come from Fireman wanting to invest in JC. Sure, he certainly benefits from it, but that's what capitalism is. It's not my favorite but we live in America and that is how it is. There are so many deplorable hills to climb and die on, why choose one that is helping your town?

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdm837p wrote

Replying to skaleywags (#2,351,986)

This is the most deranged and easily disposed of take I’ve heard yet. Fireman’s exclusive golf course whose membership is limited to 250 people has somehow brought about the revitalization of Jersey City? GTFO here.

LSP is the most visited state park with over six million annual visitors, which is why the DEP wanted to finish the job of environmental remediation, wildlife restoration, and addition of more public active recreation for the benefit of all New Jerseyans. Instead, Paul Fireman has consistently derailed those efforts with his various attempts to take the park’s land for his own.

This park is for the enjoyment of the people of New Jersey; not for Paul Fireman’s personal gain.

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Ok-Helicopter-1755 t1_jdm8xin wrote

Sorry, I don't support the forced sale of someone's privately owned land through eminent domain, especially for a park.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdma72r wrote

Replying to Ok-Helicopter-1755 (#2,352,165)

And we don’t support the forced take over of our park by private developers acting on behalf of Paul Fireman.

Turnabout is fair play. The point of this campaign isn’t to actually take his golf course. The objective is two fold: 1) to show how ridiculous it is that Paul Fireman claims to support the community but won’t use his own land to build amenities for the “youth” and 2) to show Trenton and Phil Murphy how angry Jersey City is at Paul Fireman and his attempted theft of our public land.

If Paul Fireman and People’s Park Foundation give up on their quest for taking public land, we will surrender ours to take his private golf course.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdmiijy wrote

Good news, Jersey City — the story gets better! Paul Fireman used taxpayer money to help build his golf course.

“The cost of cleanup was picked up by taxpayers, and the developer would be allowed to build a course atop the site at its own expense, under strict regulations. In recent years, Liberty National's price tag has been reported as $250 million. About 90 percent of that figure were Superfund cleanup costs.”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-presidents-cup-on-the-hudson

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdmji7q wrote

Replying to Ok-Helicopter-1755 (#2,352,165)

He used taxpayer money to help build his golf course. And lots of it:

“The cost of cleanup was picked up by taxpayers, and the developer would be allowed to build a course atop the site at its own expense, under strict regulations. In recent years, Liberty National's price tag has been reported as $250 million. About 90 percent of that figure were Superfund cleanup costs.”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-presidents-cup-on-the-hudson

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skaleywags t1_jdmjmgb wrote

Replying to nuncio_populi (#2,352,071)

Yeah, lots of people were really enjoying the area prior to the investment.... The place was a waste dump, now Jersey City has hosted The Barclay's, The President's Cup, the Northern Trust, The ICONS Series, and this year the Mizuho America's Open. These are all open to the public. The membership is not capped at 250, but that doesn't really matter for this conversation. Say what you want about inequality, but you live in the NYC area. It is going to be rampant here. You live ~10 miles from BILLIONAIRE'S ROW. What do you expect? Why don't we focus on the things that are making this town worse? JCPD is absolutely useless. 911 calls are not being picked up. Traffic is a god damn nightmare. I get that this issue has tons of buzz words and it feels like injustice, but say what you want, the golf course has helped the city of Jersey City.

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdmon2q wrote

Replying to AndyIsNotOnReddit (#2,349,344)

It gets better. He used taxpayer money to help build his golf course. And lots of it:

“The cost of cleanup was picked up by taxpayers, and the developer would be allowed to build a course atop the site at its own expense, under strict regulations. In recent years, Liberty National's price tag has been reported as $250 million. About 90 percent of that figure were Superfund cleanup costs.”

He took over $200 million of the taxpayers’ money for this. This shouldn’t be a private club.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-presidents-cup-on-the-hudson

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdmqm5z wrote

Replying to skaleywags (#2,351,986)

Oh, I’ll just drop this here… Fireman used taxpayer money to help build his golf course. And lots of it:

“The cost of cleanup was picked up by taxpayers, and the developer would be allowed to build a course atop the site at its own expense, under strict regulations. In recent years, Liberty National's price tag has been reported as $250 million. About 90 percent of that figure were Superfund cleanup costs.”

We should send him the tab to the tune of $200 million plus interest.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-presidents-cup-on-the-hudson

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nuncio_populi OP t1_jdmrvnu wrote

Replying to skaleywags (#2,353,363)

This “waste dump” has been home to hundreds of thousands of New Jerseyans, including friends and family.

Sure, Jersey City has had a Renaissance but it isn’t due to Fireman, golf, and the PGA. It is they who have benefited from us; not us who have benefited from them.

Your jefe Paul Fireman took over $200 million to build his golf course. Forget eminent domain, we’ve already paid for the land. He should either pay the money back or “donate” his golf course to LSP.

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Capital_Fennel_2934 t1_jdnc80o wrote

I’m sorry but the state of New Jersey does not need another 160 acres to add to the 1200 they already can’t maintain. Liberty State Park is plenty big - I would suggest reallocating that proposed budget into park maintenance, creating jobs and cutting back on the massive amount of goose crap that gets everyone’s kids and dogs sick.

Now if the state wanted to acquire the course to maintain and open it to the public, I’d be into that. Not only does it allow everyday taxpayers the opportunity to play one of the nicest courses in the county, but will continue to provide jobs and a solid revenue stream to the state. It also maintains the idea of expanding the park without destroying a course that currently costs more than the average mortgage to get onto. I’m sorry, but to turn those greens into underutilized playground equipment would be a crime against humanity.

Do with the clubhouse what you wish.

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