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non_linear_time t1_j55vqdk wrote

The Homeric Hymn to Demeter most likely represents a symbolic presentation of the initiation ritual to the mystery cult of Demeter headquartered at Eleusis. Rather than magic being canceled, the discovery of Demophoon in the fire and Metaneira's dismay is generally considered to be symbolic of the penalty of disbelief suffered by those outside the cult who fail to recognize the renewing force of Demeter's power. This kind of thing is more about building a sense of community cohesion through shared belief (running counter to beliefs outside the cult, i.e. Metaneira) rather than a justification of magical forces. The cult most likely taught people to expect a different experience of the afterlife, not a powerful force for daily life through belief in the transformative power of magic. Gods didn't do magic, witches (Hecate/Medea) did magic, and it was considered fairly scary and weird (and barbaric), but was generally described in a pharmacological manner in which belief didn't have much to do with the effectiveness of the herbs.

This post sounds a bit like you're fishing for info to support some sort of pan-cultural magical system based on "pagan" deities without knowing enough about the structure of the culture and religion that gave rise to those stories. If that is true, please, OP, do not go to ancient texts looking for validation of your belief systems. There are no universal truths in historical documents, only human memories, and ancient people believing in something doesn't make it any more or less truthful than anything anyone believes in today. Taking these works out of context for your own purposes is an exercise in modern myth-making. Perhaps that is your goal, which is fine, but it is not historical research.

If you are looking for more sources about rationalization, you should explore Euhemerus. You might also want to get a hold of Athanassakis' translation of the Homeric Hymns for a more up to date introduction so you can understand these sources as documents more clearly. Your reading of Plato also needs some serious contextual work considering Socrates is essentially a practical ethical philosopher who, in your own passage cited, could care less about anything that smacks of magical forces because he was questioning inconsistency between the ideological form and actual function of his society, not their cultural religious system.

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Zestyclose-Advisor71 OP t1_j56xg9h wrote

First, I can assure you, my intent to forge any sort of personal mythology or cosmos. Rather, my intent was to investigate any debates that ancient Greeks had regarding the reality, or unreality, of various extraordinary or supra-mundane phenomena.

Thank you very much for pointing out the distinction between the Gods, vs. Hecate. I was wondering, IYO, was there a kind of dualism going on in the cosmology of many Greeks? For example, did various people who were engaged in, shall we say, "unorthdox" practices call upon deities or forces that were considered unsavory, such as Hecate or the Titans?

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non_linear_time t1_j58cjbb wrote

Cool. The Titans were only disempowered, not gone unless they were imprisoned in Tartarus for offenses against Zeus and his divine order. Prometheus, for instance, was a very important culture deity who was said to deliver a variety of useful technologies to humanity, in addition to the fancier stories about the gift of fire and the instructions for how to gift meat to the gods while still having a nice feast for humanity without offending Zeus by giving him the crummier portion. There was nothing at all unsavory about asking him, or, say Rhea, the Titan queen of childbirth, from attending to your problems alongside the Olympians who might be bothered to show up (they were probably too busy receiving awesome sacrifices somewhere, though). Titans and Olympians who didn't have a beef with each other cooperated on shared domains, but also sometimes competed over them. Zeus procreated with many Titans.

Now appealing to Hecate could be a bit unsavory because she was an underworld goddess not contained within Zeus' pantheon the way Persephone was, but she was also seen as an earthly household deity. Her cult was widespread, often worshipped as an aspect of Artemis (earth)/Selene (sky)/Hecate (underworld). There is no single, definitive version because the very international Hellenistic culture of the Mediterranean of the second half of the 1st millennium BCE had a lot of different local traditions that are incompletely and unevenly preserved. Depending on the region where you wanted to focus, you might have totally different stories representing probably their own ritual practices loosely affiliated with other Hecate cults by Panhellenic stories.

Sorry I can't muster more than that. I'm pretty tired.

I'm sure there are some texts on knowledge about intentional practices, like herbaria, and maybe more esoteric practices, but I don't know those off the top of my head.

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