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Aselleus t1_iyovovj wrote

"I don’t know why you would write somebody else’s name so many times like that,"

Well, it looks like someone never had a crush before

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GrandmaPoses t1_iyp62kb wrote

Yeah that was the strangest quote.

“We’ve got this drawing of someone with open arms and the other person doesn’t notice them. Then we have the name Eadburg written repeatedly. I think it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here: Eadburg is writing her own name over and over for some unknown reason.”

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TheScorchbeastQueen t1_iyq8dot wrote

My sister is an amazing woman, far more intelligent than me but sometimes she misses the mark massively on things like this due to her aspergers lol. Sounds like she wrote this. Gave me a chuckle

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Old_Mill t1_iyqvdev wrote

Apparently they have never doodled before either... I have practiced my signature and doodled my name in general all over a paper thousands of times.

Maybe in a few centuries some dweeb historian will be perplexed by my writings.

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tgkad t1_iyrstpe wrote

Literal me when I try out a bunch of different signatutes lol.

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Origamiface t1_iysyrcj wrote

That's the other thing, the doodles here are really poor, like, they look like a toddler's drawings. I feel like a modern average adult would produce better doodles.

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edgyestedgearound t1_iysoc9p wrote

I'm not sure the sketch is even about the other not noticing them. To me it looks like wave type of greeting. An affectionate meeting between two people

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informativebitching t1_iyphabe wrote

Also this…1/5 of a human hair thick indentations from a dry stylus…seems more like someone was doodling on a paper sitting on top of the book they were supposed to be reading. Why would you write something at all that can’t be detected without 21st century technology? No offense to these pros but their conclusions seem ridiculous

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YogurtFirm t1_iyq43fg wrote

My first thought was that she was writing on paper on top of the manuscripts. No way anyone would scribble on those, even back then they were too valuable and precious.

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Wretched_Brittunculi t1_iyq6rzw wrote

Scribes were always writing insults and whatnot in manuscripts. I wouldn't be so sure that delinquents or the lovesick wouldn't too.

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theredwoman95 t1_iyqifqi wrote

There's literally a whole field of study about marginalia in medieval manuscripts - yes they were expensive, but that's never stopped graffiti.

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Vectorman1989 t1_iysye0f wrote

Possible it was a child, the drawing especially is like something a child would doodle

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ByAny t1_iyp3oxk wrote

This was my thought. Someone who was in love with Eadburg.

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Snoo_73835 t1_iyp4rfb wrote

I was thinking that. Or it might be she was practicing her writing? But my money is more on the crush thing.

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Aselleus t1_iyp72jw wrote

Or maybe it was a little kid practicing writing their name?

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FasterDoudle t1_iyp98zc wrote

This seems by far the most likely

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[deleted] t1_iypb508 wrote

Sadly not during that time period. Most peasant kids (and adults) never learned to read or write. Education was a privilege for the relatively well off up until fairly recently (late 19th / early 20th century).

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Aselleus t1_iypqxuo wrote

...I mean rich educated children existed back then.

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Allidoischill420 t1_iypxrrp wrote

And they were likely taught to write more than their name........

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Cethinn t1_iyq24oo wrote

But they still do need to learn their name at some point. It's almost like we are seeing a tiny fragment of what someone did in their life and shouldn't expect to see all of their education just because they also learned other things, if this is what happened.

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theredwoman95 t1_iyqittg wrote

The manuscript was kept in an abbey until the 1500s - abbeys were often used as schools for aristocratic children and would also educate peasant children given to them as initiates (who sometimes would decide against becoming a monk or nun as an adult). It's entirely possible this was the case here.

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OldMollyOxford t1_iyqk4z9 wrote

Eadburg is very unlikely to be a name given more than a generation or two after the Norman Conquest though! So I don’t think you’d find it among later medieval schoolchildren or their crushes.

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theredwoman95 t1_iyqk9z1 wrote

I've actually been looking at the Winchester pipe rolls (basically accounts of the bishop's tenants) lately, which started in the first decade of the 1200s, and you still see quite a significant amount of Old English names. It's maybe 10% of women's names at most, and not many women appear in the first place, but it's still enough that I wouldn't rule the post-Conquest period out.

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[deleted] t1_iyr2170 wrote

True! And a few of these names survived until more recent times as well. The last Old English feminine name to die out was Ethel, and that was just during the past century. There are a few masc OE names that survive today, but are rarely used (Edmund, Robert, Edward; all more common a few generations ago).

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ZweitenMal t1_iyr8lfn wrote

Edward and Robert are hardly extinct names. Edmund and Ethel are less common but these names are still in use. Edward is actually an excellent name—I named my son Edward.

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[deleted] t1_iyrypp7 wrote

You may have misunderstood me — Edward was my example of an Old English name that is NOT extinct. It’s cool and timeless, and Ed / Eddie is a fun nickname.

And people are still naming their kids Ethel? The only one I ever met was my Great Aunt’s friend who was ninety years old 25 years ago (she would be 115 today).

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ZweitenMal t1_iys4a3s wrote

I mean I would not be surprised to see the name Ethel be revived.

You said Edward and Robert are "rarely used" which is far from correct.

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ImaginaMagica t1_iyrkri1 wrote

How long did ink last on a page in that time period? Maybe the drawings predated the names by a wide margin. Like the person practicing their name was just using whatever space was left on the pages.

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willun t1_iypgvtd wrote

It only needed one person to do this, though.

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Knows_all_secrets t1_iyt8lje wrote

You can't use literacy was uncommon as a justification when we've already by definition filtered for someone who does write. Because this is about them writing.

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StaticGuard t1_iyqvf82 wrote

My money is on some rich kid practicing his name and doodling but used the disappearing ink stylus so he wouldn’t get reamed for writing on a sacred text.

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ptolemyofnod t1_iypqxgo wrote

Bizzare that isn't mentioned, the drawing is described as outstretched arms too, it sounds exactly like a scribe with a crush who is bored at work.

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[deleted] t1_iypbs0w wrote

That was my first thought, too. Romance is a big thing for a lot of people and a young person in love would absolutely do something like this lol.

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CNKeeny t1_iypwguq wrote

Came here to say the same thing. And I bet the doodle is Eadburg denying the writer’s advances.

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doctorcrimson t1_iyq5pdj wrote

My money is on a woman's contribution ignored for 1200 years.

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Spinningwoman t1_iyqy0wm wrote

There’s a certain pleasure in the pain felt where the top comment is the one you came here to make.

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mcrackin15 t1_iyrkfx8 wrote

I assume someone was teaching her how to write her own name using a piece of paper on top of the surface that these markings were found on. Weird that they try to come up with something significant.

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RogueDIL t1_iyryozp wrote

And it also took leading edge technology to figure out how to gently slide a pencil lead over indentations on paper to see what was written on the page before it?

Perhaps these scientists should have a look at pretty much every detective drama made from the late seventies until the early nineties for the technique!

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worotan t1_iys7lhm wrote

Except the technology means they don’t need to rub a pencil over 1,200 + year old manuscripts hoping to see if they find anything on each of the many pages.

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ItsMud t1_iyq33ur wrote

This looks exactly like my 6 year old daughter's drawings and she also writes her name on everything. These aren't primitive 75000 year old cave drawings, that sketch says young child to me.

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Toucani t1_iyqo3o2 wrote

Absolutely. That simplistic sketch and writing a name loads of times in a 'textbook' is classic childish behaviour. It may well have been an educated woman but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a child writing on a parent's text or even a slightly older child bored when studying.

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theredwoman95 t1_iyqix7x wrote

Yeah, given this was kept in an abbey for several centuries, I think there's a good chance it was a child initiate.

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damagecontrolparty t1_iyqq73g wrote

There were a lot of child initiates in monasteries and convents. They could leave when they reached a certain age, I think.

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Homeimprvrt t1_iyprg2s wrote

Writing a woman’s name tens (probably hundreds) of times including nicknames is considered “clear evidence” of a female writing by historians? When do people write their own name over and over including variants when reading religious texts? These “historians” need their PhDs checked.

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bloudy t1_iyq5ch1 wrote

Yeh this is ridiculous. Totally jumping to conclusions.

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Peanut_Butter_Toast t1_iypuleh wrote

I wonder if academics will analyze and interpret our memes like this 1300 years from now.

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onetimenative t1_iyq6uip wrote

The texts and pieces that survive.

Imagine losing 99% of all global data 1,000 years from now ... there was a huge catastrophe, an asteroid hit the planet and blew away half the surface and much of what was left barely survived. A few thousand humans survive but they lose all of civilization and are thrown back to hunter survival mode. A couple hundred years go by and people start to pick up the pieces of their lost ancestors.

They find a partial chapter of the Bible, a few pages of the Koran, some Hebrew texts, a dozen books on New York tax law, a partial copy of hustler magazine and your complete personal written journal with all its writing and doodles.

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SpinachTraditional12 t1_iyqk15o wrote

>…your complete personal written journal with all its writing and doodles.

Oh, my journal is going to be one of the representatives of the culture of our time? Hmm… brb, I suddenly have a lot of boobs and penises I need to draw in my journal.

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lostgirl11 t1_iyqw4ih wrote

That's all they have ever done.

The lost world is bigger than anything you've ever known or will know. Mathematically you're gonna die before you reach a conclusion worthy of permanent anything.

There's enough love and gravity to spend lifetimes on. Let alone everything we are too dumb to know or acknowledge yet

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worotan t1_iys86uq wrote

You could just have written that we continue to do nothing serious about climate change. That will disrupt society enough that history disappears as people use their energy trying to survive in a world that has fallen apart.

The society that results will use its energy to look forward, not back, as it’s resources don’t allow for all the effort required for the upkeep of historical records.

Just going off what has happened in the previous examples of society breaking down; and this one will be much, much worse.

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Takaithepanda t1_iyrbpqy wrote

"Back in the 21st century there seems to have been a devastating plague, known as Ligma."

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Averander t1_iyoxduk wrote

Just makes you want to know so much more!

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Snoo_73835 t1_iyp4mxe wrote

Why I love history and archaeology 😊

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randomname1561 t1_iypa3k4 wrote

My theory is that someone taught her how to write her name and she used the book as scratch paper

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JesseKavets t1_iyp8twt wrote

Well we now know where “talk to the hand” came from.

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Darth_Kahuna t1_iyqs0uz wrote

I shudder to think someone might find my 8th grade algebra textbook in 1,300 years and make it some big thing. "Look at the sketch of this woman w glasses we assume was the teacher dangling over fire. These ppl 1,300 years ago must have been monsters!" No, I was simple in a Jesuit school and everything which bothered me went to hell in my drawings when I was 13 years old (despite no longer believing)!

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eeandersen t1_iyph0cl wrote

This such an interesting report. Thanks OP for putting it in front of me. So many questions.

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Raggenn t1_iyqg3jp wrote

Even cartoons from 12 centuries ago only have 4 fingers. Interesting...

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No_Fun8701 t1_iyqfl4n wrote

Was the "writer" able to see what was written or drawn ?

Children tend to have better vision , maybe .

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CthulhuXRS t1_iyqwitn wrote

'Talk to the hand' is a lot older than I thought, if that doodle is anything to go by?

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Kubliah t1_iytacwr wrote

>Significantly, they found Eadburg’s name passionately etched into the margins of the manuscript in five places, while abbreviated forms of the name appear a further 10 times. This suggests it is likely to have been Eadburg herself who made the marks. “I could understand why somebody might write someone else’s name once. But I don’t know why you would write somebody else’s name so many times like that,” Hodgkinson said. An Old English transcription, and tiny, rough drawings of figures – in one case, of a person with outstretched arms, reaching for another person who is holding up a hand to stop them – were also discovered etched on to the small book,

This has to be some of the worste sleuthing ever, a highly educated woman writing her own name over and over? Someone in charge of an Abby would be older and wouldn't still be practicing her signature, and people practicing their signature would likely want to see how they are doing, sort of like why people don't target practice in the dark.

And the real headslapper, "I could understand why somebody might write someone else’s name once. But I don’t know why you would write somebody else’s name so many times like that" only to have it immediately followed up by:

>in one case, of a person with outstretched arms, reaching for another person who is holding up a hand to stop them

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doctorcrimson t1_iyq5mar wrote

Maybe she was a co-author and they conveniently didn't notice for 12 centuries?

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JANGO- t1_iyrxul7 wrote

What does eadburg mean? Bug-eater?

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