teddylumpskins t1_ix6l1a1 wrote
His rants against “mainstream” (whatever that means) academia always irritate me.
I’m not an academic, but I did get an MA in history so I have some understanding of how academia works. Hancock’s “dogmatic” academics are like his boogeymen or something. When he says things like “they don’t want to accept this because it destroys their narrative.” I always chuckle because any historian or academic would KILL for a credible discovery that would literally rewrite the records.
You know who else would love for more ancient discoveries and shit to be made? The textbook industry. Those guys look for literally ANY REASON to print new editions. Credible discoveries would mean a printing press of money for the academic and textbook industry.
He also never actually engages with academics and chalks their stances as nonchalance or close minded. Baffling.
MeatballDom OP t1_ix6luoz wrote
>When he says things like “they don’t want to accept this because it destroys their narrative.”
It always amuses me when people not working or experienced with academia say stuff like that. Like you say, all it takes is one look in any peer-reviewed journal to see that academia is people constantly trying to prove other academics wrong.
It's literally a requirement for PhDs in History and Archaeology (and some MAs depending on the programme) to create original research that hasn't been done before. Like you say, a huge new discovery of an ancient civilisation would be an academic's dream. I've gotten articles and several conference presentations out of analysing single words from obscure ancient texts. Just one artifact from some mysterious peoples would be career changing, let alone evidence of some massive ancient transglobal society.
drunkinmidget t1_ix77f6c wrote
PhD in History here.
It's sadly not quite that simple. There are often paradigms that are difficult to shift. Disproving one theory/interpretation or showing how something was different than we previously understood can be fantastic for one Historians career, but st the same time it is detrimental to (typically) numerous Historians whose work has revolved around what is being "discredited." Thus, people can get very defensive over a given interpretation of the past.
Even in fields covering more recent history, such as mine, where it is widely understood that our understanding of the past will change repeatedly as new information is retrieved (personal papers being accessiblr after people die, old folks not caring anymore and spilling the beans, government document declassification, etc.), you still get some very... aggressive defense of one's work from people.
So, if you are looking at a peer reviewed journal, for example, you won't see this conflict from just taking a look from the outside. But if your article is going against the tide of the field's accepted interpretation of an event, behind the scenes you may have trouble. Your article is going to be sent out to two of the field's leading Historians to review. When they read your article basically saying that their past work is wrong, they will review your article poorly and tell the editor not to print it. The editors go off the reviewers, then you don't get printed.
On the outside, you only see articles being printed with new stuff in it, but you would never know that all those articles are bringing in new stuff that doesn't go drastically against the grain of leading Historians who are reviewing those articles.
This is the same process with university published books. It's really hard to get a high quality publication in general if you are going radically against the accepted narrative for these reasons, and thus, you don't get paradigm shifts often. It can sometimes take scholars retiring and a new generation who is less attached and defensive to become the new batch of senior scholars doing reviews.
Tldr - He isn't making that outlandish of a claim. Particularly in a field that has little hard evidence to go by, it's very difficult to shift the accepted interpretation of the past.
maluminse t1_ix7bp4l wrote
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
If I knew how to give a Reddit award I would. Thanks for saying this I experienced this quite a bit.
Mind-Individual t1_ix7b5rj wrote
>Tldr - He isn't making that outlandish of a claim. Particularly in a field that has little hard evidence to go by, it's very difficult to shift the accepted interpretation of the past.
Yes! I watched the show, and it's not the outlandish claims, it the lack of evidence. Like dude, just find evidence for your theories. It honestly reminded me of astrology, which I'm a fan of, but know so well the billion theories astrologers have and claim their opinion is evidence....like bye.
piazza t1_ix7c6ty wrote
This. He's like "and then they found a layer that was even older, going back to 24,000 years ago!"
<drone shot, another shot of him walking, moving to a new location>
Me: but you never explained how they arrived at 24,000 years! How? Carbon dating, or what?
Mind-Individual t1_ix7cgud wrote
The carbon dating!....That's all I kept think about! It would literally destroy every theory he has.
Also found out that his son is the Senior Manager of Unscripted Originals at Netflix.
thejoosep12 t1_ix79yy7 wrote
While there is some pushback against new thought in history and archaeology, Hancock uses it as an excuse for why his batshit insane and evidence free theories aren't being considered by academics. He is a journalist, not a historian or archaeologist and has no real idea on how any of this works.
RealFullBlownRetard t1_ix7bzv9 wrote
A PhD just told you you were wrong...
Belzedar136 t1_ix7ce7n wrote
I mean he says he's he's phd, but we have no evidence of this. Same as Hancock...... wait a second...
thejoosep12 t1_ix7c3z0 wrote
And you don't believe PhDs can't be wrong or disagreed with because...?
InfiniteBarnacle2020 t1_ix72rrr wrote
I've got quite a lot of exposure to academia although I'm not in it and there an element of truth to what he's saying, even though it's not like a deliberate conspiracy.
For instance you talk about PhDs wanting to disprove things, or scientists as a whole.
Any research would have to be signed off by a HOD. The HOD definitely didn't get there by their research into alternative views, more than likely has extensive papers in the current model. So they have a reason to decline research into these alternatives as they think it's a waste of time as theyre invested in the standing theory. The professor probably didn't get to where they are in papers in alternative views as their H score will be a lot higher from being cited with views inline with the consensus. Plus a professor wouldn't want their name attached to a paper that might be considered 'alternative' because 9 times out of 10 it would be shown to be wrong and there's a reputational cost to that.
Then of course all the other ways to get funding to do research goes to committees and boards which again, often are staffed by people who have heavy investment in the accepted views.
These things combined with limited resources in research funding does lead to a very narrow research field.
It would be extremely difficult to actually get funding or the support to study things that goes against what is accepted.
MeatballDom OP t1_ix73g24 wrote
This is why reviewers of PhD theses (and sometimes MAs, it depends) are people outside of the department, outside of the university, and often anonymous. It's also why it's highly discouraged that people work at the same universities that they got their degrees at (although it's not unheard of). We don't care if you can make your supervisor happy. We don't care if you can repeat what your department head likes. We need to show that you can work with the wider academia, and that you can tread water in groups outside of your safety net.
My supervisors and I regularly disagreed on things. But it was my work, and they only stepped in to strongly discourage if they knew for a fact that I was wrong -- and could show it. If I had the evidence to back up my points that's what mattered in the long run.
There is no grand conspiracy to keep people all thinking the same way, it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of how academia works. If your idea has no basis in reality then yes, it's going to get shot down, but that doesn't mean that the department isn't open to new ideas, it's just that that idea sucks.
InfiniteBarnacle2020 t1_ix751bl wrote
I actually don't know how History or Arts etc are taught or where you are but here, it's the supervisors that pick the topic for the student (99% of the time anyway). It would often be in the field that the professor is studying usually supporting their work. Maybe in a highly resourced university there may be some blue sky research but as far as I'm aware here, they're all funded to support the work of the professor with topics chosen or suggested by them.
I realise it may vary from country to country and field to field though.
MeatballDom OP t1_ix75qp2 wrote
Yeah I've never heard of anyone having a topic for a PhD in History chosen for them. If someone has ended up in that situation they really didn't try hard to find a supervisor.
Typically how this works is you recognise an area where there is a gap, this is typically something that comes up during your MA research, or otherwise something you've been thinking of for a bit before then. You build up a good base knowledge of the historiography surrounding that topic, and then reach out to those working on or around that topic and see if they would be interested in supervising.
Sometimes it's an outright "sorry, no" for a variety of reasons, and usually there is some discussion and debate about how the project will go, "have you thought of this, have you read this, this has already been done but if you approach it from this angle then..." etc. but not outright "you do this project instead".
There are research projects that professors may be looking for help in that are specific, but that's not PhD level. I.e. "I need a summer researcher to go through these coins and look for x, y, z; build a database that filters a, b, c" or whatever. But that's a different area completely.
thatsandwizard t1_ix75shg wrote
Curious what field you study, as my understanding of PhD research is that it is highly personal and interest driven. Now, I do know people who chose their research based on grants (oh hey, saw-whet owls are getting extra funding, I can eat more than ramen while doing my thesis and similar stories exist) but it’s still a choice/topic of interest in the end
InfiniteBarnacle2020 t1_ix76kxh wrote
My experience is with Earth Science and often they put out adverts for students to study specific topics. They actually have to apply for funding with the topics before even looking for a student.
If you had a topic in mind you would have to convince a professor or supervisor to then pitch that in a funding round. Often they have their own topics they want studied so it would have to be a convincing topic.
poridgepants t1_ix724b7 wrote
But this established academics fight tooth and nail to defend their and their peers work from new hypothesis’ if it goes against theirs
MeatballDom OP t1_ix72zcc wrote
But they have to actually defend it, with evidence, through peer-reviewed works. They can't just say "ain't it slightly suspicious that.... therefore advanced race of early humans is obvious".
Two sides, usually more, are constantly arguing one way or the other, and as time goes on there are shifts, sometimes definitive ones. That's academia in a nutshell. It's fluid, it's constantly changing, but it has strict baseline requirements for evidence.
One that is commonly used for undergrads is: tell me when and where the trireme was invented. The ancient sources don't seem to agree, and the one that really comes out swinging is written long after the others. The archaeological evidence is a bit clearer, but still hard to say as ships don't tend to preserve well in the long-run. So throughout the 19th and 20th centuries historians were looking all the evidence they had and arguing one way or the other, all with some fantastic points of view and interpretations -- academia ENCOURAGES this. This is what we do.
But you do need evidence to back up your interpretation.
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Subjugatealllife t1_ix6qhsz wrote
Ideals aren’t the same as reality.
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CaptainChats t1_ix72ff5 wrote
He’s also just arguing something really stupid and reductive. Archeologists aren’t the only people examine the past. If there was an ancient super civilization geologists would be finding a layer of heavy metals and manufacturing byproducts from that civilization’s manufacturing. Astrophysicists would be picking up echoes of their radio chatter. Geneticists would be finding widespread anomalies in the human genome.
The ancient aliens “theory” hinges on the idea that ancient aliens were really good at cleaning up their tracks… but still left the pyramids and Olmec heads heads around? That doesn’t make any sense. That’s like discovering the Las Vegas but none the litter or ecological damage to the Colorado river.
My point is history isn’t a monolith. There are tons of different scientific and academic fields that contribute and not one of them has found anything of note. The real conspiracy is this dude’s publicist. Despite his nonsense I’ve been hearing about him forever.
David-Gross t1_ix76n2q wrote
I think if you dig deeper into his tomfoolery, graham believes that the ancient super civilization's technology was spiritual. If there's magic in play, there's even less evidence that we can find.
77096 t1_ix750ni wrote
Yeah, I understand having a beef with anthropologists and their hyper-narratives, but anthropologists are not the only people looking back at the past, as you said.
It's easy to mock the subset of cultural anthro's who think every ancient site or artifact was tied to a "fertility ritual" at the "dawn of agriculture," but they don't speak for everyone.
blackest_francis t1_ix77fbb wrote
Anytime someone tries to tell me that aliens built whatever ancient megastructure, I ask them where the cement is.
W61_51XD_Goose t1_ix7b8z7 wrote
And why does it have to be aliens. Out forbears thousands of years ago were just as intelligent, clever and resourceful as we are today. And they had an intimate understanding of their surroundings and how to utilize what was available built over centuries that we can't even begin to match when we parachute in for a bit to get some video for our latest Netflix show.
"Must be aliens!"
chacotoday t1_ix70ksw wrote
for the last 30 years Hancock has been going against academia and the scientific community saying his work has been blacklisted. but in that time span, he could have gotten a masters and phd and published. if he had something valid, it would be valued by academia. but he doesn't and prefers his fringe identity and spotlight that comes with it
Wretched_Brittunculi t1_ix71ywb wrote
He's never claimed to be a scholar. He claims to be a journalist. The problem is though, he also draws an analogy with a lawyer 'defebding his case'. He explicitly said he starts with a theory and then collects evidence to support it. He then makes the strongest case possible. He said this in his blog. It is terrible scholarship and for that reason would never get published.
Then he claims everyone else has 'blinkers'.
hominoid_in_NGC4594 t1_ix79wua wrote
Hancock is nothing but a science-fiction writer with a huge victim complex.
77096 t1_ix74me8 wrote
He's also much better-known and much more profitable than most academic researchers ever will be, so the martyr complex is just a marketing tool.
oldmasterluke t1_ix72jt2 wrote
Yeah, this show is one half step away from Ancient Aliens as far as credibility and reputation are concerned. In the past he has had a few insights about South America that sounded valid, but after this show I can’t take anything that comes out of his mouth seriously anymore.
Why_Did_Bodie_Die t1_ix6w0pa wrote
It's the same thing in UFO circles. They think different scientists just simply refuse to admit there are UFOs because it would hurt their egos and prove them wrong and "completely destroy their worldview". Neil degrasse tyson is a big one. They think NDT has to much vested interest in NOT thinking UFOs are real that he won't admit the evidence shows that they are. They completely skip over the fact that all the evidence they have is circumstantial and there actually really isn't any hard evidence and just assume it's because NDT lacks whatever enlightened reasoning they have. I would bet a years worth of salary that NDT would LOVE for UFOs to be real. He would be one of the first people in the world to write a book and do a TV show about them plus whatever personal interests he might have in intelligent beings figuring out how to travel many light years across the galaxy to come fuck with us.
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[deleted] t1_ix6xx22 wrote
It’s obvious he meant UFO’s as in from outer space and not simply UFO’s from foreign nations
_doppler_ganger_ t1_ix71099 wrote
The government calls them UAPs (unidentified aerial phenomena). While the government admitted they "exist" they have never confirmed any connection to extraterrestrials. They've listed that most of the sightings can be attributed to airborne clutter (in radar), atmospheric phenomena, US developmental systems, and foreign adversary systems.
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Abject-Possession810 t1_ix71nsh wrote
This article does a great job of explaining the motivations of the "they don't want you to know the real truth" crowd.
http://www.criticalenquiry.org/burrowscave/burrows.shtml
It's worse than most would imagine (and blatantly apparent when you read the hoax-promoting article): https://www.wvgenweb.org/calhoun/russ.htm
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thys123 t1_ix78jbu wrote
You seem a little dramatic
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