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TheLateHenry t1_ivslqre wrote

Dear English speaking world, We stopped calling it the Kristallnacht because it is a nazi propaganda term and instead call it the Reichspogromnacht, and imo you should do that, too.

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TheDeadlySquid t1_ivsxuuv wrote

Thank you, I did not know this and it’s scary how in America this could happen again.

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BaroquenLarynx t1_ivtvbpr wrote

My great grandma was from a Jewish family. She and my great grandpa urged their family to leave before the occupation of Poland. They didn't listen, so they fled alone to the US. We don't have any of that family left.

She asked what I was learning in school once, since she knew we had started discussing World War 2 and the Holocaust. I told her we had just discussed "Kristallnacht". She slapped me across the mouth and told me she didn't want to hear that word come from my mouth ever again. She told me to call it "reichspogromnacht", too.

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Kris_n t1_ivuljs8 wrote

It makes sense she remembered how this was the end of jewish existence in Germany, and how cruel it actually was.

As Britannica mentions:

>This name symbolized the final shattering of Jewish existence in Germany. After Kristallnacht, the Nazi regime made Jewish survival in Germany impossible.

So its clear that the name Kristallnacht for years has been a haunting memory for everyone who experienced it, and want to use a more reasonable name that shows what it really was - a government pogrom against the jewish community.

I can’t even comprehend what she and her family went through, but that reaction shows it still hurts.

Btw: im sad to hear about the part of your family that stayed behind. Have they ever told anything about them? Their names, their professions or anything about them at all?

It’s so sad to see that families got shattered or completely destroyed. I mean, just look at Anne Franks family. A whole family killed except for the father.

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Primljosef t1_ivsm77m wrote

Thank you for that! I couldn't have put it any better myself.

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MerelyMortalModeling t1_ivtcpci wrote

Do you have some history to the discussion that went into that that you can link?

My german is just sufficient to work through a page but not good enough to catch subtle details that allows me asses if Im reading a good source or not.

Also the anglonet pretty much shits on its self when i try to search in english.

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silverfang789 t1_ivu7521 wrote

Thanks for the info. Never knew it was propaganda; was just the name I heard for it growing up.

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TotallyNotAVampire t1_ivzbk7q wrote

So "Empire Riots night"? Most English speaking people would struggle to pronounce that, sadly.

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TheLateHenry t1_ivzcntb wrote

You can also just call it the November pogrom, if that floats your boat more. But calling it the "crystal night" definitely doesn't bring the right kind of associations.

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TotallyNotAVampire t1_ivzjrjo wrote

Is the "Night of Broken Glass" similarly problematic? I can guess that the two might be related. I don't know if it's positive connotations to "krytstal" or the fact that it's not called a "pogrom" (or riot) is the root of the issue?

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TheLateHenry t1_ivztquh wrote

Yes to both of those. I also don’t think the word ‚riot‘ fits particularly well, because this was a planned attack on the jews by the nazi party who were in charge (though other members of the public took part or were at least witnesses, as seen in the photos)

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TotallyNotAVampire t1_iw0anr3 wrote

Oh, so "pogrom" isn't a German word, and it specifically means violence against the Jews. Is that a better translation?

I'd taken it to mean "riot" by analogy with "race riots" in the US, some of which were encouraged and armed by the government.

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Dragev_ t1_iwdm9uf wrote

Thanks for that info; I learned the term "nuit de cristal" in French, basically the same thing.

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