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GrimReader710 t1_iurylm6 wrote

Reply to comment by NostalgicFrolicking in When it comes to Cuba's military victory at the Bay of Pigs, does Che Guevara deserve any credit or should it be assigned exclusively to Castro's leadership? by Anglicanpolitics123

They (landing force) had been promised both logistical and air support, which they never got. They were also promised reinforcements from the US, which they obviously never got.

In all likelihood, it was probably never planned to follow thru on any of it; they were just throwing another classic CIA "Junk Ball" at their latest political rivals.

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The_Bitter_Bear t1_ius8ama wrote

It was mostly Kennedy that prevented the full proper plan from being executed. He changed the landing location, time, and cut the resources and critical parts of the plan. The CIA catches a lot of the blame and they certainly own some of it but Kennedy really made a mess of it.

Stuff You Should Know did an episode on it that is really good.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-26940277/episode/the-bay-of-pigs-disaster-73576890/

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GrimReader710 t1_ius9yr7 wrote

I could see it that way.

Another way of looking at it tho; Kennedy was pulled into a harebrained scheme, and pulled the plug at the last minute, to avoid a catastrophe.

With American support, the initially invasion would've probably been a success, and secured a beach head.

But beyond that it's entirely conjecture. If the Cuban government wasnt immediately overthrown, then the US would be starting another front less than 60 mi from the mainland; and the Soviets would've sent direct military aid in response.

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The_Bitter_Bear t1_iusdxxe wrote

To your last point, I completely agree. They wildly overestimated anti-Castro sentiment. If it had been successful, it probably would have ended in the backup plan of having the forces retreat into the mountains to launch a gorilla campaign and would have been obvious that the US was involved. It was probably better that it failed.

Kennedy was originally on-board and then started to get concerned with keeping political distance and started making them change the plan. He should have scrapped it all together because instead he got a failure that obviously had the US behind it.

I guess I'm just always surprised how much of a role he had in the mess it was but it mostly gets attributed solely to the CIA.

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GrimReader710 t1_iushs4d wrote

Completely agree. Not a huge Kennedy fan (too soon?), So I'm def not defending him.

I also agree, it's bizarre how involved a president is in a clandestine operation like that. But considering how much executive power has increased to include that stuff in the last 60-70 years, it's not that surprising in retrospect. (Not a good thing tho!)

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Arlsincharge t1_iusij1o wrote

I thought it was pretty well understood that Kennedy thought he got played by the CIA and the joint chiefs. Both of which assured him that the plan was going to work.

I forget the exact reason why Kennedy chose to cancel the second bombing run etc. Maybe it was an attempt to obscure US involvement as publicly they were not involved whatsoever.

Either way I find it interesting that JFK no longer trusts the CIA and has an active dislike of them after the Bay of pigs, while RFK decides to go to war with organized crime. The mob and CIA have close ties, share information and actively work for years to assassinate Castro. The motivation for the mob being all the casinos and assets lost during the cuban revolution.

Makes you wonder about JFK's assassination...

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Veylon t1_iuun84p wrote

The Soviets weren't going to send anything. They were utterly shocked that the Bay of Pigs invasion failed. All they were prepared to do for Castro was use his inevitable demise as propaganda material.

There's a reason Castro always distrusted the Soviets and charted his own course. He knew damn well he'd be hung out to dry the second supporting him wasn't convenient to Moscow.

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GrimReader710 t1_iuwf64g wrote

"the Soviets weren't going to send anything"

Um what about the Cuban missile crisis?? The Soviets sent troops, planes, missiles... Oh my!

"There's a reason Castro distrusted the Soviets"

I'd be interested to see the evidence for this; to my understanding Castro supported strengthening ties with the Soviets, Che did not. It was a major disagreement between the two, and is attributed a reason for their eventual falling out.

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