ungovernable t1_it681ro wrote on October 21, 2022 at 5:59 AM

Reply to comment by AJ_Lounes in Was there mass migration of Roman citizens from Western Empire to Eastern Empire during degredation and after fall of Western part of empire. by [deleted]

There's a lot of junk conjecture in this thread, so first, I'm going to repost a link that a mod posted further down the line that I think will shed a lot of light on the subject:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period

Second, while the "sudden collapse" way of thinking about the Western Roman Empire (i.e. that in 475 there was a prosperous empire, and that by 477 "here thar be dragons") is severely outmoded, the idea that the collapse and the decades that followed represented some sort of "smooth," barely-noticeable administrative change is complete fantasy.

For example, the city of Mediolanum (Roman-era Milan) was utterly obliterated in the Gothic Wars in 538, and the majority of its inhabitants were either killed or enslaved. Hardly a mere change in the process of government to see the second-largest city in the Western Empire bludgeoned out of existence.

AJ_Lounes t1_it6oivf wrote on October 21, 2022 at 9:45 AM

As you've stated, this event occurs within the Gothic Wars, an attempt of reconquer by the Eastern empire. It goes a bit beyond the only migration process itself we were discussing here, although it is a consequence of it. Quite sadly, the large amount of deaths actually occured with the attempt of reconquer, Justinian plague etc

It is obvious that nothing is white or black. Yes, violent episodes occured without a doubt throughout the territory, the barbarians themselves were not a unique people, they all had different ways of bringing changes into the places they arrived. The Wisigoths for example did not have the same relationship towards religion than let's say the Vandals. For very much detail, each tribe and place should be studied separately.

Changes were not unseenable, true. They were even needed. Otherwise, the Empire would not have "fallen". But as I have emphasized, this is why the old roman families and clergy was, and has been, very important in the process. Small populations of the countryside were more in contact with their local bishop than the king.