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33-88-99 t1_jbtj7xu wrote

Did japan think Russia was going to invade? And that's why it surrendered to USA after the bombs ?

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en43rs t1_jbtpxbu wrote

A Japan Soviet war wasn't a hypothetical. The USSR did declare war on Japan in August of 45. Ad no, Japan didn't think Russia would invade, because they had a non aggression pact that was supposed to last up until april 1946. That's why the soviet border was basically not defended and the soviet took Manchuria in ten days when they declared war in August.

And yes, the idea that Japan surrendered to the Americans not so much because of the bombs (although, that is a factor to consider) but because they were afraid of what the Soviet may do (especially to the Emperor) is a theory supported by historians.

We can't be sure, since the Japanese burned a lot of records in August, but it's a theory that can and is argued for.

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33-88-99 t1_jbtqx69 wrote

Thanks.. that's really interesting. I wonder if theres any evidence from the Russian side that they really were thinking of invading

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en43rs t1_jbtrlct wrote

Tons. It wasn't a secret at all. We have communications between the Soviet and the Allies and the Americans especially had asked Stalin for a long time to attack Japan in order to lessen the burden of the Pacific front. The answer was always "yes, when we're done with Germany". And so when they were done with Germany in may, they put a lot of troops in the east and attacked.

It wasn't a secret it was a military plan coordinated with the rest of the Allies.

As for their plans for Japan specifically it's a bit harder to determine, true. But they still got Korea and tried to took the whole peninsula in 1950 (Korean war and all that).

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KavyenMoore t1_jbv7mx8 wrote

By the time the nuclear bombs were dropped, it was already clear that Japan had lost the war. In fact, Japan was already willing to conditionally surrender, but as I'm sure you can appreciate, after the horrors of WW2 the allies were interested in nothing less than an unconditional surrender.

Japan was hoping that the Soviets would be able to broker a peace between the two parties that was more favourable to Japan.

The bombing of Nagasaki and the declaration of war by the USSR happened on the same day, and there is considerable debate amongst historians about what ultimately led Japan to finally surrender.

I'm personally in the camp that the Soviet invasion was vastly more impactful than the Atomic bombs, but that's appeared to be somewhat unpopular on reddit in the past.

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tatramatra t1_jc1g1xr wrote

Russia did invade. But Japan was hoping to the last moment that USSR will stay neutral and could be used to negotiate some end of war agreement with Western Allies that would not be unconditional surrender. When Russia did declare war and then overrun in the very short time Japanese army in Manchuria and Korea, it was the last straw.

Historians still argue what was the the event that made Japan surrender, atomic bombs or Russian war declaration.

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Spineynorman67 t1_jbzemx9 wrote

Japan was infinitely more scared of a communist Soviet invasion than a US invasion. They were fanatically anti-communist. The end of the war in Europe meant Stalin was able to send troops eastwards and their invasion was very immanent. Their declaration of war on the day of the atomic bomb was perfectly timed.

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Doctor_Impossible_ t1_jc44xw8 wrote

> and their invasion was very immanent.

The Soviets were completely unprepared to invade Japan. Preliminary battles showed the Japanese could fight the Soviets to a standstill, and Japanese resistance, always stiff, was expected to be extreme. The Soviets had a massive shortage of ships necessary for amphibious invasion, and their previous efforts had been shockingly bad in terms of communication (no ship to shore radio contact, for instance) and cohesion.

>They were fanatically anti-communist.

The Japanese were also rabidly anti-American.

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Spineynorman67 t1_jc6toke wrote

On 9th August the USSR invaded Manchuko with 1.6 million men, 5500 tanks & 5300 aircraft, killing tens of thousands of Japanese and capturing over 600,000 within days. The rapid collapse of their huge army there convinced many in Japan's government to declare unconditional surrender.

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quantdave t1_jcq89uj wrote

Neither Moscow's declaration of war nor the bombings ended it: even after Nagasaki and the USSR's invasion of Manchuria the obstacle remained the position of the Emperor which had been omitted from the Potsdam ultimatum, contrary to the advice of key Truman advisers. It was the US clarification of Aug 11 that "the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers" that made surrender possible by implying the throne's survival, even if shorn of its former powers.

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