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creemetismami OP t1_jb3kn78 wrote

Article copy and paste:

Most residents of the Cariboo know that the high school in 100 Mile House is named Peter Skene Ogden Secondary.

Some may have a vague idea that the school was named after a fur trader and explorer, but most know little about the man.

So, who was Peter Skene Ogden, and how is he connected to our past?

His life story is an interesting piece of history that bears repeating.

Peter Skene Ogden was born in Quebec City in 1790, the 10th child of Isaac Ogden, who became Chief Justice of the Quebec Court and his wife, Sarah.

Peter was educated at the best schools, and his father had plans for him to become a lawyer, but he was not interested.

He was a temperamental lad with a stubborn streak, and at the age of 15 he decided to head out on his own, looking for freedom and adventure.

Without his family’s permission, he joined the American Fur Company as a clerk.

Four years later, in 1809, he signed up for a seven year clerkship with the Montreal-based Northwest Company, the main rival to the HBC.

Ogden was assigned to a small trading post at isle a la Crosse in Saskatchewan, and there he began making a rather negative reputation as a ruthless bully, harassing traders who dealt with the nearby HBC post.

The HBC journals tell of Ogden slashing clothes and packs, breaking fingers and slapping and punching men without provocation.

It was a pattern of behaviour which repeated itself at subsequent postings.

In 1816, he was accused of murdering a First Nations man who insisted on trading with the HBC. There were also rumours that he was involved win two other similar murders.

Before an arrest warrant could be served, Ogden’s superiors arranged a quick transfer out to the Columbia District, and he left within days, leaving behind his Cree country wife, but taking his two young sons, Peter and Charles with him.

He was assigned to Fort George, at the mouth of the Columbia River, now the present city of Astoria, Oregon.

There, he almost immediately became caught up in a messy dispute between a group of Iroquois trappers and the local Cowlitz natives.

Several people were killed, and Ogden’s reputation as a negotiator and administrator suffered even further.

In order to remove him from the continuing and volatile situation, the Northwest Company reassigned Ogden to Spokane House for the winter of 1818/19.

There, he did much better than the company expected, making good profits on trade and keeping good order.

That summer (1819) he took a new country wife, Julia Rivet.

She was a full Salish woman from the Flathead tribe who had been widowed at 19, and who was living with her mother and stepfather, Francois Rivet, a French Canadian trapper and guide.

Julia was not an easy catch, nor did she come cheap.

It cost Ogden half his life savings, 50 horses, which he traded in ceremonial fashion for her hand. She made it very plain to him that she would not be left behind while he did his travels, and she accompanied him everywhere.

She willingly adopted his two young sons and, together, they had six more children.

In 1821, the Northwest Company and the Hudson Bay Company merged. Ogden’s past history with the HBC and their traders meant that he was not welcome in the new HBC.

Ogden refused to accept this, and he travelled all the way to London to meet with the Board of Governors to plead his case.

Governor George Simpson spoke in his favour, arguing that Ogden had done no more than many others during the “fur trade wars.”

He was finally accepted, and appointed Chief Trader in charge of Spokane House in 1823. Then, in 1824, he was promoted and put in charge of the Snake River country in the HBC’s Columbia region.

Between 1824 and 1830, Ogden led six major expeditions to explore the Pacific Northwest.

These included the Snake and Bitteroot River watersheds in Utah, the Columbia River and Blue Mountains areas in Oregon, large areas of what are now Washington and Montana, the Great Salt Lake area and the western Great Basin and northern California.

He served the HBC with dedication and distinction, opening up the northwest to settlement and establishing fur trading routes.

He left the Snake River assignment in 1830 and took a position at Fort Colville.

That spring, Ogden received orders that he was being sent north to the New Caledonia District (now British Columbia) to establish a new HBC post named Fort Simpson at the mouth of the Nass River.

He also tried to expand the HBC’s trading influence into Alaska.

In 1834, he was promoted to Chief Factor, the highest field rank in the company.

The whole family moved to Fort St. James on Stuart Lake, which was the district’s headquarters.

There, Julia gave birth to her sixth child, a boy they called Isaac. She was 51 years old at the time.

In 1844, the family returned south to Fort Vancouver (Washington).

Ogden was summoned to London. It was the time of the boundary dispute between England and the U.S.

Ogden was tasked with escorting two British army officers across the country for them to assess the possibilities of using key HBC trading posts as military installations in the case of an armed conflict.

After the Oregon Boundary Treaty was signed and ratified the HBC continued its operations in the northwest.

Peter Skene Ogden and his long-time associate, James Douglas, were appointed join Masters of Fort Vancouver in 1847.

Ogden enjoyed this new posting, which was like a semi retirement, judging horse races, becoming a patron of the curling club, writing articles in newspapers and magazines and offering advice to American settlers, who were pouring into the region.

That same year, Ogden showed his diplomatic skills in resolving a hostage taking incident where some men from the Cayuse tribe killed 14 people and took 47 prisoners near present-day Walla Walla, Washington.

He was able to negotiate an exchange of the captives for a supply of trade goods and seven oxen.

Ogden served as the Chief Factor at Fort Vancouver for almost six more years. In 1854, his health deteriorated rapidly and he and Julia retired to the home of their daughter in Oregon City.

He passed away there on Sept. 27, 1854 at the age of 64. Julia lived for another three decades.

Because Ogden had never legalized his marriage to Julia, his brother and sister began legal proceedings to disinherit her and all their children.

This was despite Ogden’s written will which clearly stated “should any relation of mine or any other individual attempt to dispute this will … I declare that I disinherit them as full as the law authorizes me.”

The local HBC Governor, John McLoughlin, intervened in this dispute and enabled a satisfactory resolution.

Ogden’s name is remembered throughout the Pacific Northwest. Ogden, Utah, Ogden Point in Victoria, Peter Skene Ogden state park in Oregon, several streets and at least four schools carry his name.

There is no doubt that Peter Skene Ogden contributed greatly to the expansion of the west and the fur trade during the first half of the 19th century.

He was a man who had overcome a ruthless streak and a flawed past to become a shrewd trader, a trusted employee, a capable negotiator and a true explorer.

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FuzzyTunaTaco21 t1_jb3rdwv wrote

Who knew historically black colleges were so involved in the fur trade!

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milk4all t1_jb3blzj wrote

Sounds like an absolute lunatic who used his daddy’s name and wealth as leverage where his brutality didnt work well enough, then eventually saw enough success that age softened or wisened him and he learned the value of good reputation. Guys like him could do well when the natives were disregarded and their lands were still considered ripe for the taking. When “civilization” ended at white cities.

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sobertoad t1_jb4i5gy wrote

I like how forgiving the article seems to be. If we were having this discussion closer to fresh wounds.. Sounds like a horrible human being

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amberalpine t1_jb56562 wrote

For an honorable pioneer of the PNW, look no further than Joel Palmer.

Joel was the first captain of the first group of pioneers to break trail and make their way to Oregon via St. Louis. He's the first recorded person to ever summit Mt. Hood, and this decision is what helped carve the Barlow trail around the mountain and to Oregon City.

He wrote a book about their travels across the western US and was the first person to come up with an English to Chinook language translation and publish it in his novel "Travels over the Rocky Mountains" (a surprisingly good read all these years later). In his book he describes how to interact with the many different tribes one would encounter across the lands and how to trade with them. He even smokes weed with the tribes he likes the most.

He was known for having a way with indigenous Americans, and was appointed the first director of the Bureau of Indian affairs. Unfortunately his career took a huge dive after creating the federalized Indian reservation system. Although full of terrible history and stories, Joel was moved to create the reservation system as a way to prevent the state sponsored genocide that was taking place across the United States. Contextually at the time the west was being expanded and the Palouse wars were going on as well as a really bad measles and smallpox outbreak. By advocating for the reservation system Palmer was able to resolve the war. Still millions of indigenous peoples lost their lives, all of them lost their homes, and he lost his job as many (but historically important to remember not all) people felt that genocide was the right way and the reservation system was too generous.

He retired to what is still considered middle of bum fuck no where Oregon, in Palmer county. He has many things named after him, although surprisingly less than Ogden (that's what he gets for not being a capitalist). My favorite is Palmer snow field up at Timberline. I like to go up there and imagine him hiking up the whole thing in mocassins looking out at the exact same view covering most of the state. Its pure heaven. There's also a very fancy winery and restaurant in the Willamette named after him.

For more modern Oregon/American heroes look into Tom McCall.

PS this is a piggyback hopefully more people can learn about.

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Nbk420 t1_jb5hq4f wrote

I’ve skied Hood many times and this is a great little bit of info I had no idea about. That view is incredible, could only imagine what it was back then!

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AMWJ t1_jb4rknq wrote

Yeah, he seems more appropriately called a "serial killer", than a "fur trader".

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SpaceJackRabbit t1_jb58fd5 wrote

One of my wife's direct ancestor was a fur trader for the AFC (he also married a Native American woman – that was common at the time to establish relations, especially French traders).

The stories about the guy are pretty damn colorful as well.

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spoilingattack t1_jb4viki wrote

Yes, soft men of refined lawful behavior often make really good explorers where there is no expectation of the rule of law. /s

There’s a reason it was called the “fur wars”. The point is he redeemed himself by the standards of that time and place.

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sobertoad t1_jb5btdw wrote

Even in that context he was chastised. Doesn’t take hindsight. This was not a nice man. At all. He just got old and tired.

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robikki t1_jb3gbru wrote

My high school in my hometown is named after him……

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Whend6796 t1_jb4xhd0 wrote

Ogdenville in the Simpson…

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vonarchimboldi t1_jb5cva5 wrote

if you think peter skene ogden was bad wait till i tell you about jerry j NORTH HAVERBROOK

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abbreviateme t1_jb5sdsg wrote

My neighborhood and the elementary school nearby are named after him. Just learned who he is

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IndigoRanger t1_jb4pbia wrote

Wouldn’t mind learning more about Julia. What made her such a hard catch? Giving birth at 51?? No thanks!

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Wooster182 t1_jb4y41l wrote

Here you go!

https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/11h4wog/the_amazing_life_of_julia_rivet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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IndigoRanger t1_jb4y898 wrote

Ooh! Thank you!

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Wooster182 t1_jb4z1vh wrote

Sure thing! It came out this weekend so when I saw her name pop up in this article, I was like, “I know her!” 😂

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Carioca1970 t1_jb4ugsr wrote

Unless she came from a particularly influential family, it likely means she was an exceptionally attractive woman. He was 10 years older than she was and means he and she were still going at it at ages 50 and 60 after being together more than 30 years and siring 5 children. She must have been an extraordinary woman.

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Wooster182 t1_jb4z80q wrote

She was two years older than Ogden. Sounds like an exceptional woman.

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Carioca1970 t1_jb50vem wrote

Well I'm basing on the article and not actual information I have on them otherwise. So if the article is inaccurate then so am I.

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Wooster182 t1_jb50zd4 wrote

I’m just quoting the article someone posted about Julia a couple days ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/11h4wog/the_amazing_life_of_julia_rivet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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Carioca1970 t1_jb51be7 wrote

No, it's good. I reread the article and realized my mistake. It says she had been a widower since the age of 19 and I glossed over that detail and computed he married her as a 19 year old widower in 1819. So in fact she was actually 2 years older than he was and died at the age of 98 after such an amazing life. Just incredible. Thanks for the link by the way.

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Wooster182 t1_jb56tip wrote

The article was a bit confusing! In her article, it said she was widowed at 19, moved back home and then married him when she was 31 and he was 29.

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Carioca1970 t1_jb58k80 wrote

It makes the whole story even more interesting because as a 31-year-old childless spinster in the early 1800s it's hard to conceive how she could have been such a difficult catch so to speak. Regardless of her looks. As a woman she would have had no real status and she didn't come with a list of businesses that she was running for example. There's no denying her extraordinary curriculum after they got married but she didn't have that when he pursued her. Their exchanges when they first met had to be off the charts and my, would I have loved to be a fly on the wall there

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M00SEHUNT3R t1_jb4s29m wrote

How is she described as full Salish and then we’re told that her dad was French Canadian?

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triangularbish t1_jb4z6dp wrote

This article reads like a book report written by an elementary school student.

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Fullerbadge000 t1_jb4fwcj wrote

Didn’t Anne Hyde write about him in her latest book on mixed race families in the west?

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ST3AM3D_HAMS t1_jb4x8b8 wrote

i've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and by gum, it put them on the map!”

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YoungLadHuckleberry t1_jb5st4a wrote

I guess it doesn’t matter he was a murderer, at least he could trade a good fur

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hereforthensfwstuff t1_jb4fj43 wrote

Maybe the advancement of America will be the understanding mental illness. Edit: damn it, it’s Quebec

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cuevobat t1_jb5k2l6 wrote

Like many men in history: ambitious, and a right bastard. At least he wasn’t hung up on race.

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gwaydms t1_jb5wn2c wrote

Your post about Julia Rivet introduced this amazing pioneer woman to many of us who had never even heard of her. Isaac evidently took a lot longer to grow up! I'd wager that Julia had a lot to do with that. She seemed the type to put up with no nonsense, not even from her man.

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arrrjen t1_jb5wrvr wrote

Did they name ogdenville after him? Famous for its outlet mall?

1

ashtobro t1_jb638wp wrote

Oh, Canada. How you never cease to fetishize colonialism. Gotta love how they go straight from calling Ogden a "lad" that "pushed and shoved" to mentioning the murder accusations. The article also calls his wife "not an easy catch" as it proceeds to talk about the price of buying her, then assures the reader how she voluntarily went along with what her husband/owner wanted.

Calling him one of the most important personalities in the fur trade may have some truth to it, but maybe give bastards like these the infamy they deserve instead of romanticizing colonialism. As a Métis, articles like these really feel like colonialist apologia/propaganda. And that's not even mentioning some of the comments...

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