Hifiman Edition XS Headphones (Upgrade from Moondrop Blessing:2 Dusk IEMs?)

Submitted by Sleepless_in_Bristol t3_zvj0h3 in headphones

While still enjoying my love affair with the Dusk + BTR5, I've noticed that 2/3 of my usage is when I am sitting at the PC so with a view to my next upgrade, I am considering a pair of Hifiman XS headphones and will keep the Dusk/BTR5 for when I'm AFK.

A few people here have said that the BTR5 wouldn't be powerful enough to drive the XS in single ended mode (I'd rather keep the 3.5mm plug for compatibility) but that the Qudelix 5k works well. I read in another thread here that the XS needs 64 mW for 110 dB SPL so I checked specs: The Qudelix 5k and BTR5 both output 80mW @ 32Ω (SE and loaded) and 240mW balanced so why would the 5K drive the XS well but the BTR5 not?

Would I need to upgrade to the BTR7 (which outputs 160mW @ 32Ω SE) or Qudelix 5k if it can be shown to work better, or will I need a desktop DAC/Amp such as the Topping DX5 to drive these things?

A couple of other questions if I may:

* Has anyone compared the XS with the Dusk? I assume the XS will sound better, but significantly so and a worthwhile upgrade? Given that neither are bass-monsters, would the bass be at a similar level (IYKWIM)? The Dusks are about right for me but I would like some of the awesome detail and openness that the XS promises.

* Any thoughts on replacing the cable on the XS or is it OK? The Tripowin Zonie cable made a big difference to the Dusks (mainly to get rid of the annoyingly microphonic cable supplied but also noticeable audible improvement) but I haven't read much about a commonly agreed best replacement for the XS cable.

Many thanks,

Simon.

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UPDATE 1

Amazon had the XS on for £393 ($474) with free same day delivery so I couldn't resist. I'm a firm believer in the burn-in theory, especially so with these as it is actually recommended, so they're going into a drawer with an old mobile phone playing a radio station for a few days before I make any judgements.

The BTR5 can drive them in SE, but only just. I can easily take the volume up to max and still listen comfortably so, given that the Qudelix is often mentioned in the same breath as the XS, I've ordered one and a 2.5mm balanced cable. Hopefully they'll arrive by the time the burn-in is done, then I'll let you know what I think.

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UPDATE 2 - Impressions

Disclosure: I use my headphones/IEMs for watching TV/movies on my PC as much as listening to music and I am old and my hearing isn't great with very little top-end left so it's clarity, detail, resolution and sound stage that I am looking for. Also, I had Covid recently so that may still be affecting my hearing, although not greatly and I am mostly comparing the XS with my Dusks.

After about 3 days of burn-in I tried the XS as-is (Single Ended mode) with my BTR5 and new Qudelix 5K. They sounded quite nice but what stood out immediately was that voices sound very thin and boxy - something that was all the more obvious as the Dusks reproduce voices exceptionally well. Both DAC/Amps gave me enough volume and music sounded OK but I was less impressed than I had expected.

I was getting close to considering returning them when the balanced cable I had ordered arrived. I'm not going to say it made a massive difference but difference there was. The boxiness is still there only less so, what was apparent was that the XS needs the extra power that the balanced output supplies as they sounded more full and rounded and less thin.

To compare the XS with the Dusk, I thought the overall sound and tuning was fairly similar to the Dusk, a little more open with better bass and a bit more detail but still that boxy, slightly unreal sound that I'm not at all happy with. I haven't tried EQing either of them yet (that was why I bought the Qudelix) and I am hoping that I'll be able to sort out the boxiness that way.

I have a couple more weeks to play with them while I can still return them so I'll see how it goes but right now, while there's a lot to like about the XS, I keep thinking my ears are blocked up. When I go back to the Dusk that feeling goes away and I enjoy the music more but lose the low-end warmth, detail and wider sound stage that the XS has. I am hoping the two are related and a bit of EQ will help me find a nice balance with both devices.

Regarding fit, comfort, etc.; yes, they're loose so no 'head-banging' with the XS on and they do move around a bit. The supplied cable is good - flexible and feels nice with no microphony but let down by being SE when using with portable DAC/Amps (although of course I understand why). They feel huge but are as comfortable as any headphones I've worn and I'm still not sure if I like open-back as I can hear the fans in my computer when the music/TV is quiet.

Will I keep them? We'll see. Thanks for reading and I hope this will help someone in a similar situation.

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Comments

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No_Analysis6187 t1_j1pight wrote

IEMs and headphones have different presentations, so it's more about your preference (I personally prefer IEM even when at desk), although being an open back edition xs will surely have better soundstage and likely better detail too. BTR 5 will run them just fine, heck I even used cheap DC03 to run old inefficient Audeze LCDs. Not sure if headphones respond to cable though.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1pji1x wrote

Thanks for the reply. Sure, they will definitely sound very different, I'm thinking more of how they compare on the 'hierarchy' ladder - a side-grade or definite upgrade.

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tomatillo_ t1_j1pt0g6 wrote

Rather than a better or worse experience it's a totally different experience - IEMs and headphones are completely different presentations so I'm not sure how to answer this question haha

I own an XS, demoed the B2D, have not A/B'd both together - I would expect the B2D to give you more detail, however the XS's soundstage is just going to be just one world above - XS's soundstage height & imaging is slightly above average, soundstage width however, whew!

I do not own any of the DAC/AMPs listed nor do I care for measurements (I only care to enjoy my music) so I really don't know whether your current dac/amp will do or not - my assessment is that the XS is moderately challenging to drive - not super difficult nor temperamental, so I am guessing you should be OK.

Regarding cables, for the Edition XS, I would highly recommend getting a new cable - while the stock cable is doesn't cause me any actual usability issues (it doesn't tangle/fray/etc.), one inconsistency/problem the Edition XS is notorious for - different stock cables have been measured to have wildly different impedances. I personally use a Tripowin GranVia.

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blorg t1_j1pumxt wrote

The BTR5 and Qudelix have the same power into low impedances, both are 80mW on the SE and 240mW on the balanced. The Qudelix has very slightly higher power only into high impedances, as it has very slightly higher max voltage (4V vs 3.6V). At the 18Ω of the Edition XS neither is going anywhere near their max voltage, so it's the mW power number that matters and they are the same. Both use the exact same chip in the exact same configuration, so it's the same, BTR5 just puts a cap on the voltage slightly below the max.

Qudelix is IMO a better device but it will not make any difference to the sound or the power.

If you get it, I would put a balanced cable on it. The Edition XS is moderately hard to drive and either Qudelix or BTR5 are IMO OK with the balanced but limited on the SE, even more so if you are going to EQ. You can get a balanced cable for $10-20, no need to spend more than this unless you want to splurge for look/feel. I have a $10-15 FAAEAL cable on it, all the cables in the first pic are suitable for the EXS and except the Tripowin ($30-50) they are all under $20.

A balanced cable is not this big investment, and it's not something you can't just swap out when you want to. You can swap the cable easily if you want to use it single ended, OR you can just use a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter, or for that matter a 2.5mm to 6.35mm adapter, which is what I use. If I didn't use my 4.4->6.35 and 2.5->6.35 adapters I'd be using a 3.5->6.35 so it makes no difference and I just wire everything for balanced.

It's a different experience to the Dusk, it's "bigger" sounding. I don't think it blows the Dusk out of the water, but I don't think anything does really, the Dusk is very good. Edition XS is very good for the price it's at, it's very similar tonality to the Arya Stealth and is like 90% of that IMO for much less money.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1q51g0 wrote

Thanks for the long reply. Yes, that's what I'm thinking so far - $15 isn't much to be able to use it in balanced mode which, most seem to agree, will let them work happily with the BTR5.

I may upgrade to a BTR7 later to give me more power overhead and the ability to add the 2 EQ tweaks that several reviewers think is all that is needed to make them 'perfect' but that's the simplest solution.

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blorg t1_j1q74vj wrote

If you are upgrading, I'd get the Qudelix over the BTR7, the PEQ on the Qudelix is much better. The one on the BTR7 is limited, and only had one saved preset vs 20.

The BTR7 doesn't have that much more power than the BTR5 or Qudelix either (300mW vs 240mW @32Ω). This isn't enough that it's going to make any difference, it's under 1dB difference in the max volume which is imperceptible. If you find you need more power, you'd be better off getting a proper 1W+ desktop amp, the amount of power you need to get significantly more volume is exponential (double the volume needs 10 times the power). 1.25x power is an insignificant difference.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1xq1lh wrote

Thanks. With the Quedelix and BTR5 being roughly equivalent I keep thinking that if I'm going to spend money it should be on an actual upgrade such as the Topping DX5, which I like the look of but oddly it doesn't have balanced output!

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blorg t1_j1xw2x3 wrote

Balanced or not balanced doesn't inherently matter, balanced is just often an easy way to give much higher power, particularly in small battery powered devices. If a particular device has both, the balanced is often better and usually significantly more powerful. But it's entirely possible to produce a single ended device that outperforms a balanced one. The DX5 would have plenty of power for the Edition XS single ended, it's really in the small portable stuff you benefit more from using the balanced out. Or some desktop amps where the balanced is more powerful, and you have a really hard to drive headphone like the HE6SE.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1y3m1e wrote

Yeah, I'm hoping to be able to stick with my BTR5 using its balanced output for the extra power and with that in mind and not wanting to have to swap cables too often, it seemed notable that the DX5 doesn't have it.

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blorg t1_j1y55de wrote

DX5 has an XLR out, it's just not balanced.

If you have stuff wired for 2.5, you can use a XLR-2.5 adapter, this what I use on my main amp for stuff I have wired for 2.5, it has XLR, 4.4 and 6.35. I leave that plugged in as I have stuff wired for 2.5, 4.4 and 6.35 but not XLR.

I also have 6.35->2.5 and 6.35->4.4 adapters, so I can use the balanced stuff on my single ended amps as well. This works in that direction, it's the other direction you can't go (balanced output to single ended).

You need 2.5 for the BTR5 and no desktop amp is going to have a 2.5 output so you need an adapter anyway. Like you usually need a 6.35->3.5 adapter for single ended, they are a bit bigger than those but same idea.

You can also get 3.5->2.5, if you got something like a Topping DX3 Pro+ that only has 3.5.

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doms227 t1_j1piwxv wrote

I have experience with some similar headphones / IEMs. Namely Anandas and Moondrop Variations (also Focal Clear Pros).

The Variations absolutely shit on the Anandas (and Clears) for detail / critical listening.

That said, the Anandas add a great sense of openness, that I'm somewhere in the middle of a big world.

My overall take would be to expect it to be a different experience, rather than inherently a better all-round experience. Definitely worthwhile to have the different setup (it's also good to be able to hear when my partner is calling for me to come deal with a spider, etc.).

I ran the Anadas and Clears off a Topping D10s and Schiit Magni Heresy, and that setup did very well (now running a SMSL SU-8s and Singxer SA-1). I'd suggest trying the gear you have already, and then adjusting if you feel you need to.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1pm7l4 wrote

Absolutely; as much as I am passionately in love with my Dawns, part of my reason for wanting to try open-back is that I do feel cut off wearing IEMs - I have no idea the wife wants me until I jump out of my skin when she taps me on the shoulder.

As the Dawn and XS aren't far off price-wise I would expect them to be equally good, just different, so I would be very interested in the thoughts of someone who has tried both but your experience is useful, thanks.

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thatcarolguy t1_j1pw7er wrote

Almost any headphone (and certainly every pair i have personally heard) is a downgrade from the Dusk in any metric besides soundstage width.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1q559d wrote

That's what I'm afraid of, I can barely imagine anything sounding better!

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thatcarolguy t1_j1q5ejn wrote

Yeah IMO IEM's just sound better in general because they are easier to tune and have fewer variables throwing everything off. And Dusk is already one of the best there is. I think the Dusk is good enough that if you EQ the last little bits to your liking then it is not possible to have something that sounds better but I am ready to change my mind when I hear it.

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DepressMyCNS t1_j1rv7mn wrote

Well I've never tried the Edition XS but I have used the set they were based off of, the Anandas for a quite a while. I thought they sounded amazing for music and gaming. The sound stage is where they really shine, it almost sounds like you don't even have headphones on, it's more like you're sitting in a room with speakers paced about 5 feet to the sides of you producing not only a spaciousness on the x axis but the y and z as well, basically it adds an incredible 3d realism to everything you listen to. The bass response is really rich and detailed, it can be eq'd to 6+db and still retains detail and doesn't get muddy, mids and vocals are very clear and forward, meanwhile the highs are brilliant and sharp, not as sharp as some sets like the Senhiessser HD800s, but still a brilliant treble range.

I hope this helps you with your decision, I know it's not the exact pair of headphones but they are very similar. Happy holidays!

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1siwk2 wrote

Thanks for your thoughts, I keep reading that the XS is "Ananda with bass" like the Dusk is a B2D with bass so I'm hoping there will be similarities with the gentle amount of added bass to an already great device.

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DepressMyCNS t1_j1t5nmt wrote

Well the Ananda is no slouch when it comes to Bass, especially with a good EQ. I can't imagine how strong the bass must be if they've added even more lol.

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Apart_Flounder702 t1_j1tithj wrote

The XS running thru the BTR5(BAL) is pretty well driven, w about 10 clicks away from max(High gain). But IMO, it doesn't sound that good, too airy to the point where it sounded thin, loses that BASS more like bass now lol. XS thru the A50s is a league above ngl. I have the B2, not B2D, and to compare to 2 is like comparing 1kg of steel and 1kg of feathers. 1 has the soundstage, the airiness, and the bass impact, while the B2 is just clean and surgical. That's not to mention it's 2 different experiences.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j1xu33g wrote

"... comparing 1kg of steel and 1kg of feathers" - That's OK, I live in a vacuum. lol. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43-CfukEgs)

TBH I'm not sure what's really driving me to want to try open-back, I'm certainly not dissatisfied with the Dusk in any way. I think it's that the reviews of the XS are just as glowing and impressed as the Dusk were - "This is the device to beat under $500" - so I want to try it, after all I like all kinds of music so why not all kinds of ways of listening to it.

Ideally I want an equivalent to the BTRx that works equally well on the desktop and mobile and with both devices, and definitely one with USB input (I only listen on my PC and phone) so the A50s wouldn't be suitable but any other suggestions would be welcome.

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Apart_Flounder702 t1_j1y3occ wrote

well, ill say this, the XS sounds really really good, never for a second that I doubt the purchase. BUT the fit is a hit or miss, my coconut is on the HUGE side of the big. I maxed out the R70x wing suspension system they have(I have to bend the headband). So I thought oh so the XS has to fit me like a glove... NO, fit every loosely(could be good or bad)even for big ass head, pressure point under the ear-lope(after 2-3hr).

I haven't try the BTR7 yet, no demo unit sadge. But I wouldn't get it either, the bigger form factor doesn't fit my use case. cuz I clip my BTR5 to the "pen holder" slot of my shirt while the BTR7 doesn't have a clip/case.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j22v173 wrote

So weird that they messed up the headband like that. Yeah, the BTR7 is too big. Had it offered something new and amazing it might have been worth it but no, that and the lack of clip puts me off. I've ordered a Qudelix as almost everyone says it's the best solution.

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Sleepless_in_Bristol OP t1_j26f98g wrote

UPDATE 1 (copied to the OP)

Amazon had the XS on for £393 ($474) with free same day delivery so I couldn't resist. I'm a firm believer in the burn-in theory, especially so with these as it is actually recommended, so they're going into a drawer with an old mobile phone playing a radio station for a few days before I make any judgements.

The BTR5 can drive them in SE, but only just. I can easily take the volume up to max and still listen comfortably so, given that the Qudelix is often mentioned in the same breath as the XS, I've ordered one and a 2.5mm balanced cable. Hopefully they'll arrive by the time the burn-in is done, then I'll let you know what I think.

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