Which lossy codec to use compress with before Android BT AAC transcoding?

Submitted by silver-shot t3_zr41fe in headphones

So I've been debating this question for a while... There have been similar threads but none which I can find that provide a concrete answer, for good reason though. Apologies ahead of time if my question/point gets muddled somewhat!

For context I have a Google Pixel 6a/Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro - which should use AAC/256 kbps as a container for bluetooth I believe.

I do appreciate using open-back headphones at home when there aren't any constraints.

If I have lossless 16 bit/44.1 kHz FLAC files and want to store them in the most efficient lossy format for offline mobile use with wireless earphones, which format and at what bitrate would you recommend?

I understand that this is heavily subjective, but I've ABX'd through digitalfeed's lossless/spotify modes with HD560S and apparently cannot seem to reliably tell between spotify's normal (96 kbps ~60% certainty), high (160 kbps ~40% certainty), nor very high (320 kbps), let alone lossless.

Earlier threads mention that if you stored music in a non-direct playback format that transcodes to AAC there'd be generational loss, especially with a different format from source i.e. opus. Whereas going from lossless (though size constraints, so infeasible) would practically be imperceptible/transparent as it would be just one transcode to fairly high bitrate (256 kbps) for BT. But even if you were to store music as AAC, there's no guarantee that Android/media player would feed that AAC file to the earphones untouched as it needs to combine the audio stream with the system for notifications and the like. Apparently, Apple treats AAC better which may or may not work completely differently but that's not Android! :^)

I've had an idea to encode everything to ~128-190 kbps opus if Android/media player is simply going to transcode AAC again anyway even if it is already in that format, but unsure on this point.

If that's the case would being in the higher range (~160-190 kbps) of that spectrum be recommended? (Maybe providing more headroom for audio to sound not/less shit).

​

Thanks, any thoughts appreciated! ^_^

5

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

klogg4 t1_j11y36u wrote

AAC to AAC is almost 100% resistant to generational loss, so use FDK, mode VBR 5. Opus is compressed better, but it's up to you.

3

silver-shot OP t1_j11yc1k wrote

Hmm.. did not know that, I might do that - thanks!

1

klogg4 t1_j128kbp wrote

You can also have some great experience with Musepack (sounds amazing, no generation loss because it's subband), but the problem is general compatibility - I refused it because I couldn't transfer it to my smart watch and to friends through messengers. Shame, because it's my favourite free open source format, I like it even more than Opus for my tasks.

To my experience AAC FDK VBR 5 is good. Bitrate is something like 200-210 kbps. Sound is generally transparent to me.

2

silver-shot OP t1_j1343gn wrote

Yeah, considering it's my first time hearing musepack existing.. I can imagine it might not be as widely supported.. :/

1

klogg4 t1_j134spl wrote

Imagine it being older than Vorbis and Opus. Early 2000s.

Maybe the lack of documentation killed it, but in fact it's one of the most epic lossy codecs I have seen.

1

blorg t1_j12whrw wrote

Nine different codecs 100-pass recompression test

AAC wins over 100 decode-reencode cycles. But as /u/klogg4 says it's not likely to matter with a single re-encode. I use the same earbuds as you and I don't really worry about this, I mostly use Spotify and Tidal.

AAC is decoded and re-encoded for BT transmission, it's not passed directly to the earbud. But it's also particularly resistant to generational loss.

1

silver-shot OP t1_j1340i8 wrote

Wow what a great read! I'll go for AAC then I think! :) Cheers.

e:grammar

2

ultra_prescriptivist t1_j122i4v wrote

But Opus would be transcoded to AAC via Bluetooth, right? Couldn't that affect the audio quality?

1

klogg4 t1_j1286v7 wrote

Any codec is transcoded to AAC, including AAC itself. The question is if you can hear generation loss or not.

2

ultra_prescriptivist t1_j129kua wrote

Sure .. but presumably AAC > AAC would be less prone to audible degradation, right?

1

klogg4 t1_j12bw3z wrote

According to tests - yes. Practically, assuming we work with relatively high bitrates, - I don't think it matters so much.

2

RB181 t1_j12snqa wrote

I'm not even sure about the "almost" part, if you're not applying EQ or other kinds of DSP to the sound.

1

ExiledSanity t1_j11uu7f wrote

I really don't think it's going to matter that much.

I personally have done the same thing and most of mine are flacs converted to 320 kbps mp3. I've done some opus lately. I can't tell the difference.

I have a Samsung phone soni get a better codec, but it's fine.

I'd probably not go any lower than around 256 kbps personally. If you couldn't tell a difference with Spotify settings you probably won't here either.

Don't stress. Just enjoy. You can always change it later if you think you need to.

1

Chok3U t1_j125zzd wrote

I transcode all my Flac to 192 ogg for my offline listening. Have been doing it this way for the past 20 years and my ears are happy.

1

Nadeoki t1_j131zlq wrote

Using Plexamp for 192 Opus transcode. Works fine for the limited resolution of my phones DAC.

might consider getting a dongle to give m Tin P1 Max a bit more power to work with. Planar's are hungry

1

TagalogON t1_j12cdwt wrote

Look into AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (like KB9P), they're often ~$15-20 on AliExpress/Amazon/etc.

In theory you can use those USB transmitter dongles to output AptX Adaptive with any device that has USB. So use USB-C or USB-A adapters/converters if needed. Btw, it seems you have to get the 16-bit version for compatibility with older devices like say TV, otherwise go for the 24-bit version as those are often newer and have bugfixes and so on. They're like the same price, so just get the 24-bit versions of the AptX Adaptive dongles.

For the KB8P and KB9P there's also the Dongle Assistant software, a few people have translated it to English, check the Head-Fi thread linked below.

There's ~$20 AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles like the KB9P. It'll go well with AptX Adaptive receivers/devices like Qudelix 5K and FiiO UTWS5. And of course TWS earbuds that have AptX Adaptive.

Here's more (direct) updated info about the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (KB8P, KB9P, YET-T10P): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zfkxgf/can_i_use_a_bluetooth_transmitter_to_bypass_s22/izcyrvn/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/x49xwl/bluetooth_52_aptx_adaptive_latency_with/imune2x/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/s54lbx/wireless_closed_backs_for_general_pc_use/imqv9px/

Here's more updated info about the AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongles (KB8P, KB9P, YET-T10P): https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zfkxgf/can_i_use_a_bluetooth_transmitter_to_bypass_s22/izcyrvn/

This thread link talks about the Qudelix 5K, AptX Adaptive dongles, and specifically Apple devices: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/zc1znn/qudelix_5k_arent_these_issues_a_big_issue/iyuh35j/

This is the Head-Fi thread for those AptX Adaptive/Lossless dongles and other Bluetooth transmission stuff: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aptx-adaptive-aptx-lossless-usb-transmitters.961856/page-52

If you want Bluetooth or TWS earbuds for PC/et cetera, here's also more direct info: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneAdvice/comments/z74tif/wireless_earphones_for_pc_microsoft_teams/iy59w0n/

Hopefully we get QCC5171 TWS earbuds and TWS adapters soon as there's now QCC5171 neckband adapters with AptX Lossless and so on. And like hopefully Bluetooth 5.3 LC3/AptX Lossless/etc. USB transmitter dongles soon too.

Newer Bluetooth 5.3/etc. dongles will come out from Taobao/China, IIRC they're also maybe developing LDAC (maybe LHDC too, it's like an LDAC equivalent (LHDC has an additional low latency version), usually only found on Xiaomi devices) USB transmitter dongles. So that should come out after or like the same time. It depends on how the Qualcomm/etc. chipsets go when they implement/hack it together.

Anyway, for the storage, 128GB and 256GB microSD cards (SDXC/etc.) should be like pretty cheap, less than $50 these days. Latest phones should have OTG cable/etc. stuff already but if you're using older phones for storage, don't forget to get a legit OTG cable or cable that allows proper data transfer.

Like if your phone has no microSD card, you'll have to use external storage or the cloud storage and so on.

I have basically everything in FLAC and then the few other files are 320kbps MP3 files. Or if it's from ASMR (Here's some videos/channels for ASMR triggers: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xqq9kw/can_a_normal_person_hear_binaural_sound_when/iqcayk9/) then it's sadly from Youtube compression already, though back then and even these days some ASMRtists will give away their source or FLAC files for free/cheap on Bandcamp and so on.

So having everything in FLAC is for the peace of mind. If you're storage-constrained, go for 320kbps MP3 or 256 kbps MP3, that's constant bitrate (CBR) not variable bitrate (VBR) btw, but you can also do VBR since some people don't mind. Or ya opus since some people like that format.

Don't worry too much about bitrate loss and so on as everything is still lossy/compressed/etc. even with the new AptX Lossless from Bluetooth 5.3/LC3/etc. that won't be enough for really picky people that like to look at things on paper, lol. Like in practice most people won't be able to notice, especially since they use TWS earbuds/adapters/receivers/etc. outside.

When you're outside, a lot of external noises are competing with the music/sound from the TWS earbuds. Especially since some people don't try to go for that good/perfect fit for that vacuum seal (necessary for bass to be heard properly). And so without that vacuum seal (especially with stem style TWS earbuds, like AirPods, as those have little to no ear tips), there's way less noise reduction/isolation.

With Apple TWS earbuds or Bluetooth devices, those have hardware/software/etc. that make them sound good (through AAC) when paired with iPhones or other Apple devices that have a particular chip, like the new H2 chip or something like that.

So with Android you'll have access to LDAC, LHDC (this is basically only for Xiaomi phones), AptX Adaptive, and now AptX Lossless (few phones have it, like Motorola, ASUS, etc. have like one or two models so far, it's not mainstream yet). Those Bluetooth codecs have better sound quality than AAC in theory (though again Apple does special things though with their proprietary chips if both your TWS earbuds and phones are from Apple) and so ya.

You can do (parametric) EQ with $8 Neutron Music Player or UAPP on Android. If on PC, the free (Peace) Equalizer APO. There are free apps on Android(/Apple) that can also do a good enough job, but most of them have those graphics sliders instead of parametric or just plug the numbers in EQ. EQ can also be used to help with channel or ear imbalances.

Neutron and UAPP are the usual audiophile apps. Some people use the free/etc. options like Wavelet, which also has AutoEQ.

If you like a particular sound, try looking into squig.link graphs for comparisons and so on. You can try using the AutoEQ there to make IEMs/headphones sound like the others, just keep in mind that obviously it's not going to be the exact same sound.

Here's Super* Review using the new AutoEQ feature of his squig.link site: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWzBw3XBn8c&t=332s

Use any EQ list or AutoEQ from squig.link as a base for your preferred taste. So like adjust the treble/bass/etc. areas if the Harman/crinacle/etc. target is still too much for you.

TL;DR: get the $20 KB9P AptX Adaptive USB transmitter dongle, some microSD cards or external/could storage, and then call it a day with any file/audio format you want as in practice most people won't be able to tell the difference when outside/etc.

1

blorg t1_j12vuqc wrote

He's using Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, they don't do either regular AptX never mind Adaptive.

3

silver-shot OP t1_j134sk5 wrote

Thanks for your suggestions I'll look into the eq links when I finally decide on the format!

1