First step into Hifi and first problem, leading to first post on Reddit

Submitted by Accomplished-Edge426 t3_zpkqtt in headphones

Greetings Reddit,

I just took the plunge into HIFI after years of just using a pair Grados. So I went all in on a HIFIMAN XS and a FiiO K7 and long story short. I'm not impressed. I guess I got hyped up by the reviews from Zeos and Josh Velour. But I'm just not hearing anything spectacular, the detail is marginally better, there is no sound stage (everything in is my head) , and the imaging is no better than the grados. What the hell is happening, do I have a defective pair?

3

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

wagninger t1_j0tgt9z wrote

The first thing is, and I learn that every time with every new headphone: they are never impressive, just different.

Give it a week or two of heavy use, don’t switch back to the Grado, and your brain will adjust to how the XS sounds.

THEN switch back to the Grado, and either learn that it sounds worse than you remembered, or that you still like it and don’t really care for how the XS does things :)

32

AntOk463 t1_j0totip wrote

This is the best advice, just using the new headphones will automatically make you pick up on details on songs you have heard many times. Use them for a while until they become your baseline and then going back to the Grados will allow you to see if there is a big difference between them.

To further answer your question, how do the XS sound not compared to anything. If they sound good with great clarity, it means there are no defective parts. I'm pretty sure you already tried both headphones with and without the FiiO to make sure that's not playing a part in this. There should be an obvious boost in bass compared to the grados. Try using a different omit source to make sure there wasn't an issue with that.

7

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0xmhks wrote

>sing the new headphones will automatically make you pick up on details on songs you have heard many times

Honestly, the Grados and the XS's have the same amount of bass but the XS's bass is higher quality. It sounds tighter and more defined where the boundaries are, compared to the somewhat flabby vagueness of the Grados. Also, A/Bing them, the Gardo's midrange sounds definitely more nasally with respect to vocals.

But here's the weird thing, when I first got the XS. I plugged them into my pc without any amp and on one song I got a brief second of incredible imaging/soundstage where I heard the snare moving away from me every time it was hit.

I thought that was a sure sign of great things to come, but I have yet to hear that effect again. I thought getting a quality Amp would make it possible since I was under driving them. But alas, no dice. Now, the imaging on songs sound like everything is reversed because vocals sound like they're coming from the back of my head and all the instruments are to the 9 and 3 o'clock. I have yet to hear a true Front center channel or a smooth sweep from side to side.

1

becuzwhateverforever t1_j0uj0fh wrote

Zeos and Josh exaggerate A TON.

But give the XS a solid chance before passing judgement. Use them exclusively for a week or so and then try the Grados.

4

Fukuramichan t1_j0xqx5z wrote

Only watch those two after you buy something, never before. They give bad advice but amazing purchase validation.

2

Eezywhippet t1_j0tkeq0 wrote

Which model Grados do you have? I personally think that Grados are great headphones, even the sr60's punch well above their weight in terms of sq, and the soundstage and imaging is unbeatable for the price.

3

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0tlaev wrote

I have a set of 225e's from 2015

1

Eezywhippet t1_j0tn2zk wrote

I have those too. I haven't heard the XS, so can't comment on those. I have Beyer dt1990's as well as the Grados. The Beyers are technically "better" in terms of sq, but I wouldn't want to get rid of the Grados, I just really enjoy them (with the larger G pads).

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0toevf wrote

I'm the opposite I want to throw them away as soon as possible because even though I only use them a few times a year one of the yolks holding the drive has just broken off.

1

ColdInNewYork t1_j0tngk0 wrote

To be honest, you need to be careful about listening to the two reviewers you mentioned. They aren't total shills, and they do introduce many people to audio, but they have a tendency to overhype and to emphasize small (sometimes imperceptible) differences.

Unless it sounds very wrong, your headphones are probably not broken. I suggest learning how to use parametric EQ to find out what kind of sound you like.

3

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0tow8n wrote

Gotcha, I've heard whispers of Zeos being a spastic sellout but that's why I went to DMS, Josh, and a few others who also raved about it being the deal of a decade.

So I figured there has to be something to this; and after a week of waiting, total disappointment. It really ruined my day. I was expecting a surreal experience akin to a mini Dolby surround sound system on my head but alas...

2

halcyondread t1_j0v88n3 wrote

Like what a lot of people have mentioned, your ears get used to certain sounds and learn to prefer some over others. I usually don't like new headphones when I initially get them. It takes time for your brain to reset, then in time you'll start hearing "quality".

2

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0xmqns wrote

I'm more looking for imaging and soundstage than sound quality. I was hoping for a dolby atmos emulator on a budget.

1

GimmickMusik1 t1_j1228o9 wrote

Personally, if you are looking for a combination of the two in the relative price range of the Edition XS, then I would recommend the Hifiman Sundara or AudioTechnica ATH-R70X. The R70X has insanely good imaging for its price and the soundstage is… decent, not as wide as the Sundara, but not narrow like an HD6x0 headphone. The Sundara is basically just good at both but not great at either.

It’s very hard to find headphones that do everything great. That’s why the ones that do cost a lot of money.

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j16bthf wrote

"It’s very hard to find headphones that do everything great. That’s why the ones that do cost a lot of money."

Yeah, that's what I'm at the impasse of do I just return everything and get a pair of Genelec 8020s and call it a day or go through the hassle of ordering every different pair of headphones people recommend to see if I find "the sound" I want.

​

Also, isn't the Sundura just a slightly worse XS, and what about AKG 712's and the Senn 660S?

1

GimmickMusik1 t1_j16lvld wrote

I own both the Sundara and XS and would say they are both quite different. The XS has a much larger soundstage than the Sundara, but I would say that the Sundara has better imaging. I can definitely understand why people compare the two since they are relatively close in price, but I think the Edition XS is much closer the the Hifiman Ananda than it is the Sundara.

As for the AKG 712 and Sennheiser HD660S, I’ve heard great things, but I’ve never personally heard them so I can’t really recommend any actual opinions on them.

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j16oiyq wrote

Damn, now I have to do the try them all triathlon. Amazon is not going to like the amount of return I'm going to be doing on a weekly basis lol.

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j1cro3o wrote

One last thing,

Is it normal for the center imaging to be in the middle of your head or is it supposed to be in front of your face?

1

GimmickMusik1 t1_j1d32j2 wrote

My experience with center image in music is that it tends to sound more “in your head.” The only way to really get a truly out of your head experience with headphones is when a track is mixed with that in mind or if you use an audio engine/dsp to simulate it.

Headphones are stereo devices by default. Good imaging on a stereo spectrum means pinpoint positioning of audio between far left and far right.

I commonly see people mention imaging in gaming and while it can be achieved (there are many game engines that support positional audio as well as simulate surround audio) the reality is that not all games support imaging through headphones. So keep that in mind if you plan to use your headphones for gaming.

1

wunkyfunky t1_j0xzuk9 wrote

Got the Clear MG a few weeks ago and i’m kind of in the same boat as you. I’ve listened to them before but that was months ago. It seems i’m underwhelmed due to the hype of them especially from Zeos. Everyone else on here has given good advice of just keep on using them for adjustment, which i’ll follow too. That’s the thing about this hobby, no one has the same set of ears and it’s ultimately up to the listener to decide and critique the cans. Happy listening!

2

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0y9cc3 wrote

Yeah, I feel that, for that price of those tho I would've have just bought a pair of Genelecs and called it a day.

1

[deleted] t1_j0tkm6a wrote

Soundstage is a subjective thing and is perceived very different by everyone.

Ive heard people tell me about headphones such as the HD 800 sounding as though sound was coming from in front of them, whilst for me only the sides rech beyond the cups but frontal image, no matter the headphone, will never leave the inside of my head.

Regarding detail: Every headphone will reproduce every sound, what varies is the loudness of that which results in different frequency responses.

A lot of headphones people call detailed are just boosted in the treble really.

Instead of straining your ears to try and hopefully maybe imagine ti hear something that might not be there, ask yourself:

Do I enjoy the sound more? If not, then don't bother.

All this "give em time" ain't something I believe in, as you are essential forcing yourself to get used to something you dont really enjoy.

I hate blue cheese but I am sure Id get used to it eventually if I just ate it every day but thats hardly a solution to the problem of blue cheese tasting bad :/

But the Hifiman to have one thing up their sleeves, if the out of the box sound aint to your liking: Low distortion (in most of their headphones) allows for equalization.

You can change their sound as you see fit and thus turn em into something you enjoy, without getting horrible distortion out of them.

If you don't wanna use EQ or simply think the grado sound is peak headphone, then just send em back, since youve obviously found your ideal headphone :)

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0tlrfk wrote

I never said I think Grados are the zenith of headphone technology. I just simply have been out of the headphone scene for a while and never got around upgrading as I don't really use headphones that much so I couldn't justify the purchase.

Also, I wasn't that impressed with the Grados either when I first got them. The sound is just Okay but the Ergonomics and build quality are straight out of the 1940s.

1

[deleted] t1_j0tpwlf wrote

Well if Grado aint your benchmark it sounds to me as though you have yet to find a sound signature that leaves you not wanting anything more.

Thus Id like to propose once again the use of EQ.

Tune away what you don't like and add what you feel is missing. The Hifiman take EQ really well.

But are you impressed with the Hifiman build? I found even the HE 1000 to feel like a mere toy when compared to many cheaper headphones. Hifiman also has a bad rep regarding durability, deservedly so.

Lets hope your pair survives beyond the warranty period, should you decide to keep em :)

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0trxxv wrote

The build is decent, probably a soild 7/10, I don't feel like going full whistling diesel on them but they don't feel like they'll crumble like particle board. But if I drop them on a hard floor from about 5ft its mostly likely gonna be game over.

Anyways.. When it comes to EQ'ing how do you go about that?

​

P.S I also forgot to mention when I first got them. They arrived before the amp so I plugged them into my pc and listen to a few songs. And for a split second I got this crazy imaging/sound stage phenomena of the symbols of a drum moving away from me in every time they were struck. I thought that this was surely a sign of things to come but I have yet to hear it again. Quite vexxing.

2

[deleted] t1_j0tsegx wrote

I use equalizer apo and peace gui on windows (its free)

For me its easy, since I like Harman as is, I just look up oratory1990s preset and go with that.

If you don't even know what you are looking for I'd suggest starting with his preset (if available) and the just start playing with bass and treble adjustments

If there is no preset available, you gotta fiddle about with it by ear.

You cna reas up on thing in this FAQ:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/faq/

1

No-Context5479 t1_j0yftry wrote

I can help with the EQ

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j0ygltf wrote

How do I EQ it to sound like a HD600?

1

No-Context5479 t1_j0ygr41 wrote

It won't sound exactly the same because of HRTF differences brought about by the cup style, the clamp levels, the driver type used (Planar Vs Dynamic) but it will have the similarities of an HD600 after...

But why though?

I'd send the preset to your DMs soon

1

Accomplished-Edge426 OP t1_j1cqjb0 wrote

The other thing I noticed with these is there is no left/right panning for imaging. The sound starts in one ear and just jump to the next. It just leaps from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock without any imaging in the 2 through 10.

1

Yanze058 t1_j1r9l3m wrote

the xs itself has big sound stage as well as k7, this maybe the reason why vocals are coming from behind. have u tried with other amp dac?

1