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RB181 t1_iwcabfq wrote

Forget new wave, sine wave is where it's at.

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klogg4 t1_iwkxv15 wrote

But what's the new wave? I only know sine, square, saw and triangle, which of them is a new one?

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Me_MeMaestro t1_iwcx54x wrote

Sorry, I can't listen to this at 96db because the headphones I have deviate from Harman 2db in the bass, 3db in the mids, and 3db in the trebel, they're practically useless and cannot be enjoyed

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JustAu69 OP t1_iwcywvn wrote

Sorry, I can't listen to this amp because a) It isn't by Topping or SMSL b) The SINAD is under 125

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harmonious_baseline t1_iwfkqww wrote

I wish I could upvote this a thousand times. This is all that anyone needs to know about ASR.

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SupOrSalad t1_iwcbt48 wrote

At 96dB

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brndtt00 t1_iwco1zk wrote

Hey I'm a measurement gal myself, but this was funny, at least I laughed.

If something is funny(for me) i laugh, even if it's "mocking" my stuff.

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commandermik t1_iwcvskj wrote

Y’all are all wrong. That’s actually a cosine wave.

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lawk t1_iwdh46j wrote

I appreciate the hard work for all his measurements. They are a valuable guidance. But he hears his graph and then basically has a sound description that is wrong and mostly consits of "yeah I really turned up the volume and got blasted, highly recommended"

eh what?

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dongas420 t1_iwdr20y wrote

I EQ'd this IEM to the Harman curve, and the result sounded like banshees were screeching at me from the center of my skull. Fantastic improvement!

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[deleted] t1_iwde6ab wrote

BEHOLD THE ALMIGHTY BEEP BEEP AND BEEP SWEEP. THE DEFINITIVE SIGNAL.

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Pokrog t1_iwe3bvj wrote

I've been saying for years, he listens to 95db DSP corrected sine wave sweeps to fall asleep at night.

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carlosmante t1_iwemwja wrote

If ASR were a churh the ASR would stand for "Absolute SINAD Rogation".

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Ezees t1_iwepcax wrote

Hahahaha!!! Pretty much this. He doesn't even listen to his "reviewed" products any more than a short listen - and then only after applying EQ. He couldn't tell you what something sounds like unadulterated. This goes for his followers too - who judge a components SQ and merit without ever having listened to most of what he "reviews". OTOH, they're sort of okay for an introduction to things - but only entry-level stuff.....

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Strickens t1_iwepedu wrote

I call this one the Wibbly Wobbly EQ

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neon_overload t1_iwfcmle wrote

Can't see any sine of comedy in this pic

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hufsam t1_iwfkqqe wrote

I don't read too much on ASR, but is there anything wrong with his measurements (of DAC / amp)?

For me his measurements are helpful to confirm a product is objectively good, but I read or watch other reviews to find a product I like with the functionality I need. I don't look at the charts and pick the biggest number, but when I choose something it is "comforting" that it is good / comparable to other products.

You and I (probably) can't hear the difference between 80 and 120 SINAD DAC. But if you were to choose between two seemingly similar products, why choose the "bad" measuring one?

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JustAu69 OP t1_iwfp3pe wrote

Not the measurements of the amps and dacs, but the interpretation of the results and his narrative

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StanGenchev t1_iwfulm9 wrote

ASR - Good for measurements but you shouldn't read too much into his conclusions/opinions as "Everything that isn't Harman is bad!" is pretty much the default for him.

> can't hear the difference between 80 and 130 SINAD

Between 80 and 120? You most probably will. Between 90 and 120, not so much. Remember, our hearing isn't linear.

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AnOldMoth t1_iwg21gi wrote

I don't think you would in terms of practicality.

Even when listening really really hard, really dedicated people with extremely high-end stuff only notice once it reaches -55 dB.

I have a hard time noticing HD until it reaches -40 dB of so.

-80 dB distortion is effectively inaudible.

-120 dB distortion is literally impossible to hear.

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hufsam t1_iwg9y8p wrote

Okay cool. I don't read much other than the numbers really, I watch others for subjective stuff, but mostly I want to hear it for myself. And yeah 80 to 120 was a bit extreme example..

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Iggydang t1_iwggzl6 wrote

This applies to ALL measurements you see being done and not just on ASR, but always try and find at least 2-3 different sources for measurements of amps/DACs/headphones to rule out sample variation and measurement errors. Some screw-ups are very obvious (see his joke of an Ananda "review", which to this day has no mention about how the measurements were of a broken seal and are not very representative), but others such as his Mojo 2 review have extra noise past 7k since he seems to have tested it with a crap non-isolated source and thus fed all the USB noise through (which you wouldn't have realised unless you also referenced the GoldenSound review, where he actually bothers to test it with multiple sources to find out if the noise is a problem with the device or because of the source).

It's not always his fault, as sometimes manufacturers send units to him then make changes later on changing the measurements. I would argue that the "ESS hump" IMD fix makes it a better overall product (bringing distortion from -130dB down to -110dB doesn't matter, but bringing IMD at -25dbFS from -70dB to -95dB might), but as long as the site continues to use their stupid "higher is better" SINAD chart and has members/passer-by that seriously believe that, manufacturers have an incentive to "cheat" tests there since he basically never edits his main review to reflect changes and the community there always treats less distortion wayyy past the point of it mattering as some blessing from God.

> But if you were to choose between two seemingly similar products, why choose the “bad” measuring one?

Subjective sound quality (and what even are "bad" measurements?) aside, there's a lot more to consider than just measurements. I recently got a Cavalli Tube Hybrid to try tube hybrids for cheap, but the overall experience in use just doesn't match up to my old yet very similarly priced Asgard 3. The knob feels cheap and too easy to turn for something with no gain, the buttons are long-throw with a cheap actuation (therefore feeling scratchy as it rubs against the case, which is not a problem with the switches on the A3), and they used some cheap Zwee XLR connector which feels worse when inserting and is harder to pull out than the Neutrik on my Jot. I haven't felt one IRL, but the 789 seems to use the same components and at the original price of $350, would be an overall worse experience to use v. the Jot 1/2.

I'm also a bit weird for considering this, but also I prefer to put my money towards designs that are not the standard op-amp reference design with a few tweaks sold as some massive feat of engineering. The A90 and the Jot 2 both measure very well, but the A90 has the majority of its performance coming from the IC op-amps (with circuit tweaks to measure better), while the Jot is a design from the ground up which also measures very well, and is $100 cheaper. Same with the Bifrost - I can justify the money for a design that required quite a bit of R&D to figure out how to interface not-for-audio DAC chips with their own filter and still measure well (see the BF 2/64 or the Yggy MIL measurements), so to me charging the same price for what is mostly the reference design for a TOTL D/S DAC chip is a joke. Then again, I haven't seen anyone else saying the same thing, so maybe my considerations are just a bit weird.

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hufsam t1_iwwm1tx wrote

Hey,

Took forever to respond, but thanks for the nice answer!

I agree with basically what you say.

Check several sources, don't blindly trust others over your own experiences etc is my approach. I have not really been looking too much at reviews. I am very happy with my gear so far, and I have been lucky enough to listen to some very high end stuff both at show rooms and privately.

Right now I got two stereos, and one of them also is for headphones. The stereo in the living room has a audible hum from the amp. It is sort of annoying me, but for the living room it is fine as the sound is incredible (Hegel H200). It's an old amp I bought used, and it has done what I ask of it with no problem on the three sets of speakers I tried it with.

The other amp I got is a DIY I bought used with a ICE 1200as2. It is not "that" good in measurements compared to some other amps, nyt it has way more power than I need and to me it sounds very good. Also I am lucky to have no noise (need to put my ear right next to it to hear the slightest hum).

I do have a Topping DX7 Pro and I think it is nice because it allows me to use headphones, connect power amp with XLR and a subwoofer with RCA. Easy to switch between those and easy to switch source from USB to optical. I had other headphone amps and DACs before, and I got this for the DAC functionality and decent enough amp

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S0undJunk1e t1_iwxjrao wrote

Why not get the better measuring one?Because it might sound like shit, specifically to YOUR ears. or maybe it’ll sound better to you. who knows? the measurements certainly don’t know what you like.

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Bairat t1_iwcasvw wrote

Damn that's a fine sine wave you got there...

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Obokan t1_iwev3fv wrote

Do I wanna know?

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S0undJunk1e t1_iwxj5u3 wrote

I laughed out loud, thank you.

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davis25565 t1_iwdteys wrote

legit the only real sound wave

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TrueSelenis t1_iwdtrnl wrote

does it look like a "eeeeeeeeeeeeeee" or an "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" to you?

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Crater_Dude t1_iwdywtq wrote

I listen to a nice clean sine sweep before I jump into the deep waters of my music collection. Hell... I even went as far as ordering custom 50mm drivers from Aliexpress today to see if I can achieve this with my Logitech G Pro wireless headset (soly used for gaming of course) which seems to lack linearity somewhere around 50hz.

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[deleted] t1_iwcj3kl wrote

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aless530 t1_iwck3lj wrote

Lmao, amir stans are so fragile It's a lighthearted jab, dude. I can't imagine the hulk rage you'd be in if this post was actually insulting amir...

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oppiehat t1_iwf4ypz wrote

I love how redditors only like science when it benefits their agenda

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JustAu69 OP t1_iwfoyso wrote

So Amir = Science? That's a big statement to make lol

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fukinKant t1_iwfyrol wrote

I mean for amps and dacs it does not get more scientific then Amir

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JustAu69 OP t1_iwfz2up wrote

Sure, but I disagree with the point that since I don't like Amir, I don't believe in science. Amir is a subset of science. Science is not a subset of Amir.

I find Golden Sound, SBAF, head-case and headphones.com to provide better and more relevant measurements.

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fukinKant t1_iwg4ean wrote

I personally really like some people from this side (precog, crin) but for amp or dacs i feel like they are really unscientific and are lead by the placebo suggested by the designs marketings etc. so for that i prefer ASR by a mile.

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JustAu69 OP t1_iwg9h7p wrote

Crin uses the iFi black label to test all of his headphones to maintain consistency. He rarely comments on amps or dacs.

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fukinKant t1_iwh8ria wrote

Ik thats why i like his reviews uses absolutely neutral amp/dacs has a really scientific standpoint to all his actions or makes it clear if it is not.

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bloodyjo t1_iwcwarm wrote

Still better than crin's snowflakes hip hop at 50dB

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No-Context5479 t1_iwd2qb2 wrote

I thought he is more of a Soul/Funk listener if I remember from some Q&A he did... Also what is wrong with listening at 50 dB

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nwotmb t1_iwd5r32 wrote

It's not real music if you're not causing permanent damage every time you listen

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No-Context5479 t1_iwd6b2r wrote

Lol... Maybe that's how they feel Soul/Funk is as real as music gets so more power to that person if they wanna blast their ears at 85dB continuously for several minutes... I feel 50-75dB Ish is a perfect range for listening.

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tim-405 t1_iwdfkts wrote

Most music is mastered at “reference level” meaning around 85db c weighted, if you are significant below that the tonal balance of the music isn’t correct anymore due to the equal loudness curves of our hearing; meaning that if you listen at lower sound levels the earphone should have significant more bass and highs to compensate for lack of volume; meaning how we perceive the level of bass and treble is not the same at different sound levels. It thus has nothing to do with blasting your ears but more with not listening at proper reference volumes and thus potentially misjudging the device under test.

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hhafez t1_iwdined wrote

Curious to know why it's 85db c weighted and not a?

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tim-405 t1_iwdlke7 wrote

It's from this paper https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19436 , so one may take a look there, I personally wouldn't know exactly why. The general point is that if you are far (i.e. 20+db like crin) below or above ~80db you are essentially not listening to the sound as intended and may miss either bass or highs. The itu standard (ITU-R BS.1116-3) states 78 dBA, maybe they have a better (open) explanation? https://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.1116/en

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Mizuo___ t1_iwf7tnx wrote

Based on equal-loudness contour, a 50dB sound would most likely sound like 20dB at most, below 100Hz. With the average human which stops at around 5dB(@1kHz), you basically only have -15dB of audible dynamic range. Anything below 40Hz is most likely inaudible.

Somewhat weird especially for hip hop which emphasizes a lot on sub-bass. It's either he has a godlike hearing capability or he misses measured how loud it is.

Though I might be totally wrong, I am not 100% sure about it.

> thought he is more of a Soul/Funk

He mention in one of his video, that he listen to Japanese Hip Hop quite often. He also did mention in his airpod pro 2 video that his listen at 52dB.

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bloodyjo t1_iwfnu7e wrote

at 50dB it's not music , it's the sound of your kitchen doing nothing

dB scale

You can dislike what i'm saying I don't care . I had my doubts about Crin , I still wait from my "F**k bass" in my FHEs though. But when he said 52dB as listening preference I was shocked. Eitheir is measure level is not calibrated or he is a fraud.

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[deleted] t1_iwggx1f wrote

You made the first mistake of not jumping on the train to bash ASR. 50dB as a reference volume is utterly and truly laughable.

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bloodyjo t1_iwgj6ef wrote

too many people uses technical terms without knowledge of technic and physics behind it....

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