Submitted by Yammy_Lyfe t3_yfb4zi in headphones
Bickster- t1_iu2zz92 wrote
Headphones have been seriously stagnant recently, but the IEM world is going crazy. A-tier tuning has hit the $20 bracket, planar's are crashing the market, and moondrop exists. If someone manages to hit it big with a high-tier budget headphone, we might see a little more action.
Yammy_Lyfe OP t1_iu311hk wrote
This might be a more interesting area to jump back into.
I've only really noticed about two names in the last 6 years, Sundara and Moondrop, probably due to the sheer number of references, I actually saw them.
IEMs would be an interesting area to research more. I never really had anything in that category, unless counting Baldoor E100 earbuds and some old sub $20 hi-fi when cheap models were just starting to get some respect in Ali-Express. I would imagine this area has made leaps and bounds.
XxDankSaucexX t1_iu33qub wrote
you can pay 150 for a letshuoer s12 that would be unbeatable under $700 5 years ago (with a bit of eq)
ResponsibleOven6 t1_iu3v6cj wrote
This right here. Get the S12 or 7Hz Timeless and be blown away by how much the $200 and under IEM market has changed.
TheBatiron58 t1_iu5byna wrote
Also the etymotoc er2se or XR. Amazing for $60 on adorama and blow any cheap iems out of the water.
Hebolo t1_iu5p14e wrote
Yeah. They are pretty close aside from the high treble basically where the Etymotics lack some resolution.
TheBatiron58 t1_iu5q1j7 wrote
Wait really? I thought etymotics lack heavily in the bass department if you don’t get the XR. Sometimes it’s fixed a little if you have a really good fit
Hebolo t1_iu638o9 wrote
Volume, not necessarily resolution.
Hebolo t1_iu5nzzp wrote
Well, I agree that the S12 is insane, but the MDR-EX1000 had an MSRP around $500 and IMO may still be the best (I'm saying this while also owning and regularly using KSE1200 and LCDi3).
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu3cn6m wrote
Crap unnatural sound in S12 and “Timeless” stuff. Sorry. All the internet craze for chi fi is utterly idiotic. Try picking a real IEM to discover what sound could be like. An Onkyo E700M (sadly they stopped making it) can be found on alibaba or eBay for 50 bucks. It’ll a 500 dollar Senn IE400 out of the water.
Bickster- t1_iu3hc4e wrote
most IEM's are better than the IE400
Also, if you want people to try something out, try to do it without smelling your own farts about your alleged superiority over the entire chifi market. I haven't heard of Onkyo, and I'd be happy to try them out, but you're not exactly giving me much to work with.
UnacceptableOwl t1_iu3r0e6 wrote
Onkyo is a Japanese hifi company. They primarily make receivers, amplifiers, and home audio equipment. Very similar to Denon. They both just also make headphones. I have eyed the E700M myself, but I ended up going with the Denon AH-C820 for the dual drivers and they're just absolutely phenomenal.
BadgerMcBadger t1_iu422mt wrote
>most IEM's are better than the IE400
what? i thought they were loved here
JustAu69 t1_iu4jpm6 wrote
Most Sennheiser IEMs are not loved on this sub
Pokrog t1_iu5cqir wrote
Idk people rant and rave about the IE300 and 600 and they're both just absolutely shit imo.
JustAu69 t1_iu62veg wrote
I've heard neither, but apparently the 600 are pretty good. For me it's just annoying to see them insanely cheap in US while I have to pay the full price here in Europe despite these being German
Bickster- t1_iu4kig6 wrote
It's a bit of an exaggeration, but the ie400 are very tonally unbalanced compared to its competitors
The ie600, on the other hand, is a very different story, and probably what you're referring to when you say this sub loves Sennheiser IEM's
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu5bubf wrote
IE400 has a bit of exaggerated lower end but it’s not “unbalanced” by any stretch. IE600 gets to a 1,000 bucks. At that price range the options are many. IE400 hits a very sweet spot.
dittyboy t1_iu5ank3 wrote
The one that is loved and you see a lot is the ie600 likely. It was also boosted by a recent $200 off sale
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu5bpld wrote
It’s the dumbest kind of comments you will see from fanboys of KZ or S12 or Timeless kind of rubbish. IE400 has stellar sound, for those who actually understand music and audio :)
Nadeoki t1_iu6qj4f wrote
Can you go into detail on "unnatural" ? To most people who've ever heard them they sound astonishingly good from all the reviews and listening tests on the internet (except for people who dislike harman I guess)
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu80zk6 wrote
“Most people” includes a large swathe of the world buying Apple, beats, and 30 dollar Panasonic earphones. To me these are muddy, horribly distorted bass, and many build qualities. The treble is often sibilant. Mids muffled. Get an Onkyo E700M from eBay or alibaba for 50 bucks (irs discontinued, so these are old owners or remnant stock). Then get Timeless rubbish for 200 bucks. Listen to the same music on both. You’ll see what I mean.
Nadeoki t1_iu87elt wrote
notice how I said "most people who have heard them". I'm pretty sure Beats by Dr. Dre users don't know or care about audiophile brands or try their headphones
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu8mruv wrote
Same difference. Different type of cluelessness. A vast majority of those who are pleased with chi fi garbage haven’t heard proper audio equipment. They have a Bluetooth speaker at home and are upgrading from the beats or 30 dollar Panasonics.
Nadeoki t1_iu8n2f6 wrote
Can you show me this kind of metric population data for these claims you're so confident to make?
Wise_Concentrate_182 t1_iu8nz3r wrote
Yeah sure. Everything relies on metric population data 🤣 Move along. Enjoy your KZ 10 :)
Nadeoki t1_iu8oiu3 wrote
Uhm, yes the kind of claim you made actually does.
I use SA-6 ULTRA's and NTH-100's but ok
Bickster- t1_iu34z1u wrote
The two main $20 IEM's that everyone are raving about are the Moondrop Chu's and the 7hz Salnotes Zero's. I've had my Chu's for a while and they're great. Can't wait for something similar to pop up in the headphone world, like maybe a better tuned superlux hd681 or something.
Solypsist_27 t1_iu39n0v wrote
Koss ksc75 exists though
Bickster- t1_iu3gseb wrote
fair, but the superlux have stupid good soundstage/imaging for the price, and you can actually eq a bass response without making them catch on fire. too bad they're tuned to treble cannons.
Solypsist_27 t1_iu3k4av wrote
This makes me want to get a pair and just use eq, one thing I don't like about my ksc75 is that the Soundstage is barely there, and it's mostly "passive" Soundstage
Plus with the autoeq directory it should be pretty easy to make them sound good if the problem is the tuning
Ok-Psychology-1420 t1_iu47keh wrote
“Passive” soundstage? As opposed to what? “Active” soundstage? Please elaborate on this concept for me
Solypsist_27 t1_iu4vu28 wrote
I've read someone online using these words and I use them to describe my experience, but that's probably something totally made up lol
Passive Soundstage is the feeling of the sound being wide because of the open back nature of the headphones, simply because of the fact that your ears aren't occluded and the drivers are further from your ear canals. For example, iems and closed back headphones lack this feeling, which I describe with these words.
Active Soundstage is what people usually refer to as "regular" Soundstage, and is the feeling of the spatiality of the sound despite the actual distance from the driver, ear occlusion and so on. Imo it depends on both tuning and technicalities like detail retrieval, layering and "imaging", and from a tuning perspective it depends on how the headphone/iems follows your particular hrtf.
My experience with the ksc75 is that yes, they feel open compared to an iem or closed back in the same price range, but though being open the sound feels quite "in your head", and there isn't much separation from instruments being in the front, in the back, closer or further away. Imo that has to do with the headphone struggling with layering, in a way that if two different instruments are playing at the same time, especially when there's a difference in volume, a part of the detail of the sounds is lost and therefore the illusion of space is compromised.
Instead, with the venture electronics monk plus, to make an example, the layering is much better and that in my experience results in a much more accurate Soundstage and feeling of space, even though the specific location of the sound (imaging) is not always clear, so that results in sounds in the "background" as sounding further away, while still detailed, and sound in the "foreground" not being affected by the other sounds around them, resulting in a clearer and easier to understand depiction of the music.
Another example of "passive" vs "active" Soundstage is an iem like the Moondrop Aria. Being an iem, your ear canal is completely occluded, and therefore they lack that "open" feeling of open back headphones or flat earbuds, though they make up for that with technicalities and tuning, that are pretty good for the price. That makes the sound still feel "wide", especially stuff sonically designed to sound that way, like ambient music, or well mastered orchestral music. The spacial image is more defined than the ksc75 Imo, though being closed they feel wide in a "different way", therefore why I started using this comparison between these different feelings still using the word "Soundstage"
Sorry for the wall of text, also this is just my personal way of describing my experience, and it must not in anyway be taken as something universal or that I expect anyone to agree with. There probably are people with better knowledge and better terminology who can describe what I'm experiencing better, this was just my personal take on the subject "Soundstage" lol
Mert_Burphy t1_iu6hypa wrote
> too bad they're tuned to treble cannons.
good thing motorhead and slayer concerts attenuated my innate treble response in the 90s. Headphones too bright? No such thing!
Nadeoki t1_iu6r3h7 wrote
Bragging about having permanent hearing damage lmao
Mert_Burphy t1_iu7bq3r wrote
Always a silver lining. Love my DT-990s so much.
kroidi t1_iu3dp8z wrote
<3
Nadeoki t1_iu6qtr2 wrote
or something with detachable cable (even balanced?)
johnwclark t1_iu4ykec wrote
And you missed the QKZxHBB, also at $20. Basically the zero with some extra sub-bass and toned down treble.
The OP is correct, headphones haven't really changed much in a years. IEMs are the moving target.
smallhero1 t1_iu37ka0 wrote
How is it possible that there can be so much innovation in tiny IEMs but so few in full sized headphones? I’m no engineer so I have no idea why this is but can someone explain?
TRX808 t1_iu3nj07 wrote
Most of the IEM explosion is centered around Shenzen where the production time is very short to turn things around. They can buy off the shelf drivers (almost none of the drivers are proprietary), 3D print the shell, and keep prototyping without breaking the bank. Designing and producing a full sized headphone prototype is significantly more resource intensive.
Also I think many of these small IEM companies in Shenzen have learned from others and it allows them to churn out IEM's at a much faster pace because they have a lot of the basics down.
pocinTkai t1_iu3cwf5 wrote
Well, you can't make a headphone flatter than flat. IEMs haven't been targeted to audiophiles in the past, so there were (/are) improvments to make in terms of audio quality. With oe-headphones you can just reinvent the wheel nowadays.
Kn0thingIsTerrible t1_iu3d1p7 wrote
Precision sound quality on a small scale is exponentially more easy to reproduce than each relative size scale.
It’s a million more times more difficult to make a small scale speaker system than a high quality IEM.
oballzo t1_iu4ua9i wrote
Completely disagree. You can DIY speakers, hell even design your own speakers if your knowledgable enough. And you don't need a $50000 rig to measure speakers. Just $100. You don't need to worry about fitment in every shape of ear possible.
It's not hard to design a decent speaker with low distortion. But it's extremely difficult to design a room with good accoustics. That's not up to the speaker designer though, ha! So the IEM designer has to think about your ears accoustical shape, but the speaker designer can ignore your rooms accoustical space.
JustAu69 t1_iu4jiqt wrote
From what I've heard, it seems IEMs are easier to design than open back headphones. That's why once the general tuning (neutral + sub bass boost) was figured out, Chinese companies were able to jump onboard with low manufacturing costs and flood the market with excellent budget options.
Thieaudio, Moondrop, Harmonicdyne, Sivga have all made attempts at open backs, but none of them seem to be able to challenge the status quo of Hifiman and Sennheiser yet.
FuriousGeorge50 t1_iu3c2q0 wrote
Basically Moondrop and Dunu are giving you 1000$ Monarch MKII tuning for 1/2 price.
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