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Abraxo_Grammaticus OP t1_itz8ew6 wrote

I started my headphones journey with Sennheiser HD 380s. Nothing earth-shattering, but not bad. I had a somewhat decent speaker system already, so I didn't really see the point in having headphones too. Then I found this subreddit, and found out there's an entire hobby here.

I quickly decided to get a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros. I was happy with them for a year or two. I bought a basic DAC/amp combo from Topping, and figured this was pretty much it as far as contentment with a pair of headphones was concerned.

I then heard about planar magnetic and also decided I wanted to try open-backed. This time, I spent more time thinking it over, since the price increase was fairly big for my wallet. I read a lot of reviews. I eventually narrowed it down to two offerings from Hifiman, the Sundaras and the Anandas. The reviews didn't all agree on the differences, but the gist of it seemed to be that the Anandas are more neutral, and the Sundaras more lively.

Well, I've spent about four hours listening on these, and I'm thrilled. I finally know what people mean when they say soundstage. Why open-backed is a good thing. This might be placebo to some extent, but I'm picking up details in music that I had never noticed before.

I can still see myself using the DT 770s, mainly for gaming. I'm not sure if I'll buy a more expensive pair after these, but then again, that's what I said when I bought my previous ones..

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Kasavu1 t1_itzaojm wrote

You got them in the old packaging. 👍 I believe nowadays they're shipped in newer, cheaper cardboard packaging. Enjoy.

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Doccks71 t1_itzf0ii wrote

Now get out of this subreddit before you are in few thousand grand deep!!

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wiggan1989 t1_itzg0fm wrote

Ditto. Had mine for over a week now. Brilliant aren't they? I have the new shitty packaging.

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jay_marcus_rustler t1_itzhdc9 wrote

same. i love mine. wondering where to go next in the hifiman line up. xs/ananda/arya

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zap117 t1_iu02ggy wrote

This is blasphemy, but i want something like this wireless. Have the Mobius awesome sound but horrible build quality and janky firmware

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one_broken_man t1_iu02uxl wrote

Have you tried HD660s before? I am TORN between those two.

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one_broken_man t1_iu0ejtq wrote

Replying to Mr_Wood1440_ (#261,942)

Not sure exactly. I've listened to the HD660s in an AV showroom and loved them (although with "Truebass" turned on on a iFi Zen Dac V2). I plan on listening to the Sundaras next week.

I liked how colorful the HD660s were - everything was loud and clear, very little being recessed when anything else is playing. Not entirely sure how to describe it.

I'm only considering buying the sundaras if they manage to sound better, I guess. From what I've seen and heard, I already fear the comfort, the cable, the QC and honestly I don't really like the way they look. Considering they're about the same price at the place I wanna buy them from, it's gonna be a hard decision.

So, I'd like to know how you thought they compared and (even if) sundaras are worth getting over the 660s.

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Mr_Wood1440_ t1_iu0klgh wrote

Replying to one_broken_man (#262,156)

Id love to help, I was in the exact same situation and no one helped me. I also have the true bass and used it for both. What headphones do you currently have?

Firstly, build wise I trusted myself with the 660s more, no doubt. While the sudara was metal, the yokes felt thin and I felt that if I dropped the headphone too many times or was a bit harsh I could break them. 660s did not feel like that.

Comfort, another win for the 660s. The Sundara were not bad, I have a small head so they were a little loose but they would be fine for most people, but yeah again the 660s were just way better for comfort. Not as heavy either if that matters.

The cable on both are fine, the Sundara is not a material I personally like but there isn't anything wrong with the cable (does not kink). The 660s cable I much prefer (as a 58x and 6xx user) but it is way too damn long and I hate that. Take what you will of that.

QC could be there for either headphone, but id trust 660s to last longer. I don't know what country you live in but for me it's not easily replaceable so senny for me.

Looks are something no one should care about but yeah for me 660s look much nicer and much more sleek. Sundara looks wack.

The objective stuff, the soundstage on Sundara was much wider, and it was fun to listen to. People say the 660s are cramped in comparison, but to be honest I loved both (660s are wider than 6xx). Both headphones represent the soundstage in their own way that is nice to hear. I personally like intimacy more so 660s was the winner but Sundara is quite good too. Take your preference

The imaging goes hands down to the 660s, it's way too good. The Sundara isn't bad but 660s really outshine it. So for competitive gaming it would be better (I personally judge that imaging is more important than soundstage for this case).

SOUND
Ill try my best, but the 660s to me felt cold: I think all the frequencies were present (though it sometimes felt something was missing to me), but there is a good amount of detail. The midrange is the pure focus and it does it excellently, with the bass being alright in both quantity and quality. Treble is good for those who are sensitive to treble, as there isn't that much and it's a relatively smooth curve. It's a good all rounder headphone.

The Sundara does the highs much better, they are smoother and more detailed, but it can get hot for some people (like me). The mids are not as good as the 660s, definitely less focus, good detail but not as smooth and so it is not as relaxed, though this isn't a bad thing for some people. The bass has less quantity but better quality.

Which do I prefer? the 660s because of the highs, I am sensitive to sharper treble. But which would I recommend for people for pure sound quality? Sundara just because of how much detail is present in the headphone. There is SO MUCH at that price point and it really does outshine the 660s in that regard. Though if you prefer something more luscious in the midrange the 660s wins there. If you are more of a bashed, neither of these would be my pick and I would go with the hd6xx and the true bass, but if you had to go with one of these then 660s.

This is all written really quickly and I haven't reworded or reread anything, so if you have any questions please do let me know, I do not mind answering.

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akeep113 t1_iu0pxht wrote

Replying to Doccks71 (#257,228)

but really though. i think the $350 sundara is probably the best headphone you can get before you start hitting hard diminishing returns. the ananda, hd800, focal elex, lcd2c, etc are all fantastic headphone but are they twice as good as the sundara? are they really worth another $300+ on top of the price of a sundara? then you look at headphones a tier above those (arya, focal clear, lcd3, etc) and have to wonder if these are really x4 better than the sundara like the price would indicate.. if 'bang for your buck' is your goal, i would seriously consider stopping at the sundara.

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holdmyown83 t1_iu0uj8p wrote

Awww SHIT!!! I thought I was out of this subreddit……they look so comfy. I wonder how they will sound with my Sony Wm1a.

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Juggernuts9 t1_iu0vh7x wrote

Now you just gotta mod them a bit a new 20 dollar wire and some dekoni nuggets really does immensely help with the sundaras. I wouldn't change the earpads just yet I would wait like 3 months before you decide to change them out if they're just not your style.

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bagelbites29 t1_iu0xnsr wrote

Where did you order from? I bought mine recently and they came in cardboard packaging.

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mr_sinn t1_iu0zze4 wrote

Replying to HuckDFaters (#265,093)

Value of money is different to everyone. I own $1000 tier headphones and couldn't have stopped at the $300 price point as a general reflection of quality.

I think they're talking more generally, that most people feel they're good enough for the price.

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_obituary_ t1_iu12vy1 wrote

Hey there, congrats on your new headphone! Question for ya or anyone reading this.
How's the Sundara comfort compared to HD58x? I use mine pretty much all day/night between work and personal projects/gaming.

I've been wanting to upgrade my hd58x but still not sure what to pick up, Sundara is first on my list. Cheers

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HuckDFaters t1_iu13fkz wrote

Replying to mr_sinn (#265,316)

Yeah I'm just saying Sundara is already quite close in quality to higher tier headphones. People can stop with a Sundara and be perfectly fine. Other people can and will pay $700+ more for 5%-10% of improvement over the Sundara and that's fine too.

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Roxaos t1_iu1dmly wrote

Replying to _obituary_ (#265,749)

Honestly out of all the headphones I’ve worn:

Audio Technica: ATH-M50x | Focal: Elex | Hifiman: Sundara | Philips: Fidelio X2HR, SHP9500 | Sennheiser: HD8xx, HD58x

The 58x were the most comfortable.

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yung_houdini_RL t1_iu1q6pa wrote

Hell yeah brother.

That was my first pair as well. Sold them at one point and actually “downgraded” to HE400is, and enjoy them more. Not to say that these weren’t an amazing experience though.

I’d still recommend them to any friends interested in getting into the hobby. I just personally felt the bass was almost lacking, and the HE400is sound better in that department, to me.

Maybe that’s not actually what the difference is, but it’s how my brain/ears interpreted the two. And it may be accurate, as most audiophiles definitely aren’t looking for bass. For me the HE400is still have a very spacious sound, 10x more clear and more of a soundstage than any gaming headphones I’ve used even up to the $400 range, and they just have a tad more punch imo than sundaras.

But yeah. Did ya get a nice stack to go along with them?!

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323726 t1_iu1xr6y wrote

Great headphones, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. There's tons of Sundara hate and its totally unjustified imo, enjoy them.

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jvo203 t1_iu22dqb wrote

Are they comfortable, with no clamping around the ears, absolutely no pressure on top of the head? If not then what are the lightest and most comfortable headphones that money can buy?

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LTHardcase t1_iu27pl6 wrote

Replying to akeep113 (#263,821)

Prices don't suggest x-times better, never have and never will so this line of arguing has always been completely pointless. When the manufacturers start using that in their marketing come back with that.

Diminishing returns are not hard at the Sundara either, the Arya is clear proof of that.

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crazyoldgerman68 t1_iu292kc wrote

Budget limited me to 4xxx, wowzers is my reaction to the sound

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NangFTW t1_iu39s2j wrote

Replying to Qazax1337 (#260,905)

Can confirm, been daily driving LCD-2Cs since April. My neck is Corey Taylor levels of strength. Using any other headphones feels like I have nothing on my head.

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Abraxo_Grammaticus OP t1_iu3aitf wrote

Replying to yung_houdini_RL (#269,247)

Yeah, it's hard to say how much of one's perceptions are subjective and objective. I've been hot-swapping my Sundaras and DT 770s to listen to the differences. Which is pretty enjoyable just by itself.

I already had a Topping D10 and A50, so I'm just using those for now. But now that the bug has bit me, I can't help but to look at other DACs and amps.

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AntOk463 t1_iu3bg5o wrote

The Amazon deal got you too? I was looking at these for months but decided I didn't need them, until I saw they were on Amazon as open box with a 20% discount and had to get them. I knew the QC issues existed, but by getting them in Amazon I can return them easily.

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hali26 t1_iu3c9e4 wrote

I’m new to the sub, what are these headphones called? And do they have a Bluetooth version?

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jvo203 t1_iu3felu wrote

Replying to Abraxo_Grammaticus (#277,961)

Thanks, I have HIFIMAN Deva Pro and whilst the ears are OK without much clamping, overall the headphones feel somewhat heavy on top of the head... I have also tried AirPods Max in an Apple shop but they were way too heavy, despite all the engineering efforts by Apple. It is so difficult to find ideal headphones...

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6ixpool t1_iu3ners wrote

Replying to Kn0thingIsTerrible (#278,290)

Its actually an issue of getting a pair with no QC issues out of the box. If you get a functional pair, the drivers last forever since planar magnetic headphones are very simple devices.

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pravikanth88 t1_iu3pnk3 wrote

Yeah reddit (headphones) should be stated as their official advertising partner on their website...

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TRX808 t1_iu3pzkl wrote

Replying to akeep113 (#264,280)

I think that a great value (or lack of) doesn't mean that you click with a headphone. If you think the Sundara's sound sucks then the value proposition doesn't mean shit, and to the contrary if you click with an expensive headphone then the price tag may not matter as much.

(I own Sundaras and think your point is accurate but trying to explain for the person above)

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GOBBLESHNOB t1_iu41xw3 wrote

Replying to mr_sinn (#281,685)

I know a lot about audio. What is objectively better in a more expensive headphone? I don't believe there's anything different besides frequency response and that is easily fixed with eq.

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mr_sinn t1_iu536ur wrote

Replying to GOBBLESHNOB (#281,769)

If you "know a lot about audio" I'm more surprised you need to ask. Go somewhere to try a pair it watch some reviews, there's generally a correlation between price and objective quality of a product

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GOBBLESHNOB t1_iu6n9ox wrote

Replying to mr_sinn (#289,548)

I'm just curious. What would you say is objectively better in an expensive headphone? I want to see a measurable difference that's audible. Something other than frequency response, because like I said you can very easily eq anything below very high frequencies. Transient response doesn't matter so long as the headphone has a response up to 20khz. Group delay is practically inaudible on the sundaras. THD is inaudible on the sundaras. Soundstage has nothing to do with price as it's based on earpad shape, depth, and driver angle. Resolution is not real, it's just frequency response. A "bad resolving" headphone would have a bad frequency response that masks other frequencies in an unnatural way. I just want to know what you think is objectively better. Looking at the LCD-2s, their frequency response is terrible even compared to the sundaras. The only expensive headphones I'd ever buy would be the dan clark stealths.

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