Bickster- t1_is4ec9m wrote on October 13, 2022 at 5:41 AM

Reply to comment by QuatreMyr in Most discriminating audio reviewer by SnooStories7223

I guess a better way to put it is that neutral should be the norm, not the exception

It's okay to like a certain signature, but I should not have to pay out the ass for a neutral headphone because almost every headphone under $150 measures like a damn heartrate monitor

QuatreMyr t1_is4icdu wrote on October 13, 2022 at 6:31 AM

Thats the dream isn't it... Unfortunately from an engineering standpoint, neutral fr + no time domain problems is very hard to do, which is why there are few of them, and why headphones that are close tend to be more expensive.

Bickster- t1_is4lw0t wrote on October 13, 2022 at 7:18 AM

I understand that tuning headphones (especially on a manufacturing scale) isn't exactly easy, but I find it hard to believe that V-shaped signatures became the norm because it's easier to engineer. I've seen some enthusiasts DIY tune headphones with household materials and get significantly better measurements. I think it's more of a marketing issue, where manufacturers won't post any information about the sound signature of a headphone, and just kinda assume that people like V-shaped headphones because most people don't have the vocabulary to express what they like about a particular headphone. Recently JBL came out with a well-measuring cheap Bluetooth over ear headphone (the tune 710 I believe), but you wouldn't know it, because absolutely no-where in the website, stats or marketing material can you find the measurements. Clearly it isn't impossible if JBL can come out with a well tuned headphone. Not to mention the leaps and bounds the IEM market has been making, and some of the headphones Koss has released too.

QuatreMyr t1_is4pxlk wrote on October 13, 2022 at 8:16 AM

In my 10+ years of experience with headphone communities, neutral definitely is not what most people enjoy, give them a headphone that perceptually has all frequencies at roughly the same volume, and itll get called boring by the majority. Whenever I see someone call a headphone neutral, it's almost always a little v shaped at the very least.

Not neutral is definitely easier to engineer though. Headphones in particular, by nature, don't start out flat, and often fight you every step of the way if you do try to coerce them into being flat. A fix one thing, 3 more go wrong kind of thing, every change you make has cascading effects. Speakers are far easier to work with if neutral is your only goal.

audioen t1_iseimcm wrote on October 15, 2022 at 11:00 AM

Neutral -- meaning literally flat frequency response -- is also not how a speaker sounds in a room. There will be downward slope in treble, there will be boost in bass, and earlobes do their thing around 2-6 kHz at least as far as our eardrums are concerned. The point of these tuning targets is basically to mimic the tonality of a real speaker in a real room at a reasonable listening distance. So in a bizarre sense, if you have a reasonable tuning target, it will be v-shaped, but it also sounds similar to studio monitor's flat response in an actual listening room.

Then there are equal loudness contours to consider as ear's response is not flat either but depends on overall sound level. It is another v-shaped correction curve.

My opinion is that there is no single tuning target. As long as the response is somewhat like any of the various harman/soundguys etc. target curves, it is probably close to what it "should" be, especially given that there is not and can not be one single target as it all depends on assumptions used to derive it, and ultimately is up to individual's preferences and experiences, also.

I find it pointless to eq few dB boosts here and there, because there is no universal headphone audio truth. However, if something in the sound does bother you, it is probably best to fix that part. Yet, it can be due to any number of things, one possibility being that your individual preference for sound reproduction is slightly different from the manufacturer's approximation, e.g. maybe your main music listening room has bit different dimensions or your earlobes have slightly unusual shape, or whatever. It can be pretty much up to any random thing like that.