K702s with L30II and E30II - is it supposed to sound this harsh?

Submitted by justaalawstudent t3_ydminj in headphones

So to give a little context, I don't have that much experience with actually owning sound systems though I read a lot about them and have tested quite a few. Today I received my Topping E30II which was the missing piece (as an external DAC) to my L30II + K702 setup and I have to say, I'm disappointed.

I use this with Oratory1990's preset (Equalizer APO) and it did sound a bit bright when paired to the L30II alone but nothing like what it sounds with the E30II also on the mix. I'm 21 years old and can hear up to 20khz (been tested more than once recently) so my hearing is very sensitive and the K702s are UNLISTENABLE to me as it stands. EQ doesn't help, it just sounds too harsh my ears physically hurt after 20 minutes of decent volume listening (this is not a joke nor is it an exaggeration, my ears really are that sensitive to treble) to anything with some high frequency presence, basically. So I am already considering selling the E30II, but first I need to know - is it really the DAC's fault or are the AKGs just that sibilant when paired to "good" DACs?

https://preview.redd.it/z7aya2l692w91.jpg?width=897&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=822fb66558026b5ae4573c17fee7846a90dd047a

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blargh4 t1_itt31cy wrote

What source were you feeding it before?

Really doubt it has anything to do with that DAC, unless it's defective and has some nasty high audio frequency oscillation for some reason.

K702 does have some pretty large treble peaks above >10Khz according to various measurements but it would be strange if it took a new DAC to make them troublesome.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itt3u9v wrote

I was actually using it straight from my PC to the L30II, which is obviously not ideal but I didn't have anything else at that moment. My PC is pretty high end but I doubt the mobo DAC is better than the E30 (I could actually hear noise when my PC was under load lol), which is why I don't know why it sounds so harsh.

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RB181 t1_ittwv45 wrote

Depends on the specifications of that motherboard DAC. I'd expect the E30II to be more transparent than most, if not all mobo DACs (I also have the E30II, and it's better than my mobo's Realtek ALC880 at least with some of the more power-hungry headphones), but then you might just like the coloured sound of a mobo DAC more; more transparent does not necessarily mean better sound, as evidenced by tube amp users and the like.

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ku1185 t1_itt5zhs wrote

Some people think DACs sound different. Or you might have some issue somewhere somehow.

I didn't think the original AKM E30 sounded harsh (least harsh among K5 Pro AKM, Apple Dongle, El DAC II), but don't know about the E30II.

If you're looking for other options, I think Cayin RU6 is a very attractive option to try R2R. Got NOS option which may help with harshness.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_ituy2jd wrote

Placebo was the first time that came to mind, but it's incredibly difficult to rule it out without another DAC to compare as any blind test attempt would be screwed up by the fact that the volumes mismatch a lot when switching between E30II and PC connection. I wonder if an E50 from Topping which uses a different, more premium chip compared to the ak4493s on the E30 would sound a lot different? I always imagined they would not, but now I don't know.

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ku1185 t1_itvh9o2 wrote

Can't really tell you what you're actually hearing and what's placebo, but I'm inclined to suggest that it doesn't really matter. Just find something you enjoy.

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AntOk463 t1_ityk8dk wrote

Use them straight out of your PC, I know some people will say that's not enough power to drive them, but just do it. I have AKG Q701 which are pretty similar headphones, and they are the best headphones I have tried, the Sundaras have come close but nothing can beat the sound quality of them. Try using them straight out of your PC with no EQ and then adjust the EQ and see if they are still as unpleasant.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itz25bb wrote

I solved the problem by using a different measurement to EQ the K702. It's awesome now and I'll keep using the combo as is. Using it from the PC without an amp was the first thing I did and it honestly just sounds plain bad. Quiet, sterile, thin as hell. The amp gives it life.

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[deleted] t1_itu1cv7 wrote

[deleted]

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justaalawstudent OP t1_ituyufn wrote

Good to know I'm not going crazy! I don't actually know what I'm going to do as of right now. I have to rule out placebo or something else before outright buying a new DAC (which I wouldn't mind doing, actually, but only if I was sure it would tame this brightness on the k702).

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hurtyewh t1_ituk1yx wrote

A Harman EQ'd K 702 shuould sound pretty smooth in the treble so I'd try to use an Apple dongle as the DAC to see if your PC is the issue. That's my guess. The amp would have to be faulty to be the cause. Could Harman just be too bright for your preference?

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justaalawstudent OP t1_ituzaz2 wrote

The PC I don't think (please, correct me if I'm wrong) has any influence in sound after I connect a USB DAC to it, isn't that how it works? I mean, it is worth trying. The problem with playing from the phone is the lack of PEACE (I don't have anything equivalent actually, I don't use my phone to listen to music that much) so I'd have to compare them without EQ.

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hurtyewh t1_itv2ym7 wrote

Exactly (unless the DAC is poorly designed and allows noise through). On the phone you can use Wavelet to get the same parametric EQ function. Also does the volume change when you turn Peace on and off since with Windows updates it can stop working?

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itv8sbx wrote

Yes. PEACE is working normally. It's installed on all devices and every change makes an audible difference.

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DandyVampiree t1_ittj72i wrote

K702 are extremely bright. K612 is better. Although if i were you, since you already have those, just EQ to Oratory's settings.

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hurtyewh t1_itujv4m wrote

They're not extremely bright to the average listener. +3db between 2-3kHz and 5-6kHz with a similar similar bump from 100-500Hz is not extremely bright for individuals with treble sensitivity or an ear canal resonance matching the peaks. For most people they are perfectly fine and OP EQ'd those out already so that has nothing to do with the topic.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_ituygcz wrote

K702 (even if EQd) not properly amped just sound very bad imo. Lackluster both in high and low end. When properly amped I did love their sound signature but for some reason am finding them too bright after adding the E30II and have no idea if it's true, placebo, E30II really is bright when it shouldn't be... I don't know.

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hurtyewh t1_itv4b4f wrote

Do you use a Harman preset with some other headphones and don't find them bright?

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itv8kpz wrote

Yes, I did it with my Sennheiser PC38X which is supposed to be very neutral, actually (according to Crinacle). Did not find them bright at all.

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hurtyewh t1_itvfl1j wrote

Sounds very strange. I wonder if there is unit variation or something or could the EQ values not be correct? Hard for me to imagine that when EQ'd they would be considered bright by many. You can also lower the overall treble with one of the bands, right?

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wonko1980 t1_ittk8gg wrote

I had the L30/E30 Version I for test and it sounded quite analytical and hard with my K702, too.

Finally so decided for the Fiio K5 pro ESS and I’m very happy with it.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_ituzf8j wrote

Curious. Would you say you noticed a big enough difference to confidently pass a blind test?

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wonko1980 t1_ituzz6e wrote

Yes, but probably only with good headphone like the K702 and good source material. I tried the Topping DX3 pro plus, too, and it sounded softer… wouldn’t probably figure out this as easy, but to me my Fiio K5 pro ess sounds more pleasant. Sadly I never had the chance to hear a warmer DAC/amp, but as far as I read the Geshelli stack must be one of the very best under 1K.

Edit: Modded my K702 with Yaxi pads and got clearly improved sound.

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heyyoudvd t1_itu6fw4 wrote

I just received a K702 this week and I’m playing it off my L30 gen 1 (post-recall) and using a Xonar sound card as my DAC.

So far, I’m loving it. I was going to post my own mini-review, but I’m liking this sound a lot. Perhaps it’s sharper than the headphones I usually use (Senn 6XX, Grado Hemp, AirPods Max, Denon D750, the Koss lot, and a few others), but I don’t find them too sharp or harsh at all. They’re very detailed with an impressive soundstage. I’m really enjoying the K702.

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BionicSammich t1_itv0p3o wrote

My K702s sound very harsh to me without EQ. I've got a Schiit Magni and Modi and I'm used to my HD 6XX. If you want to try something, get some EQ software and go onto Crinacles headphone grapher, select just a K702 and his standard target (default) and use the Auto EQ function. It absolutely transformed my K702s. What really helped was it drops something like 4-5db in the 2200hz range and takes out all the nasal harness sound.

Here is a link. Just go into the Equaliser tab and just click AutoEQ (you can change the AutoEQ range from 20-15000 to 20-20000 if you want to alter the super high top end. This will take LOADS airy treble out. I didn't do this.). Just export that and import it into your EQ software (such as Peace). I found I had to increase the volume on my amp, or else adjust the preamp gain in peace to bring it to the same volume level as default.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itwvpkw wrote

Thank you. I'm not quite sure how to use this on Peace though?

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BionicSammich t1_itwxwyq wrote

Were you able to get as far as exporting the AutoEQ settings? They will just be downloaded as a .txt file. If you have, you just need to load up the full interface in Peace (the option on the right when you open Peace) and then find the import button and just select that .txt file from your computer. Then just make sure to save it so it adds it to your list of EQs. The import button is sort of small and easy to miss. Easiest way to describe it is if you find the Green + and Red - buttons, look just below them. They are on the right side of the program.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itz1iln wrote

Again, thank you for this. I thought the Harman curve was supposed to be "neutral" so I didn't even think of using other measurements, but after tweaking a lot I found a K701 measurement that REALLY tames the harshness. I was nuts thinking of selling the E30II before doing this. It solved the problem. Now I'm enjoying my K702s again.

Edit: that was not a misspell, it's a K701 measurement that I'm using (which shouldn't be all that surprising that it works since they sound almost identical).

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BionicSammich t1_itz4hg9 wrote

I found that AutoEQ made a huge difference for me with my K702s. I find myself using them more than my HD6XX now. And I only found it when Crinacle just did a quick demo of it in passing in one if his videos. It makes a mild improvement to my HD6XX, but the difference with the K702s was massive. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of EQing (I was one if them) but it's free and it can be an improvement.

Edit: Also, if you want to try keep it as close to stock sounding just for the sake of it, make a copy of that EQ profile and just start moving the siders back towards 0. If you don't like it, just put it back to the value it was. I find even all the K702 really needs is a reduction in the 2000hz range. That gets rid of most of the harshness.

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Odd-Spend-8757 t1_itv8995 wrote

I suggest you to use oratory presets only as a general guideline. I find that those presets sounds harsh too. Try to learn how to EQ by yourself, I learned with some hours of training.

An easy way: you can start from the oratory presets and modify up or down the bands that have the low shelf or the high shelf, following your preferences (do it while you listen to a song that you know well).

You can also look at the frequency response graph of your headphone and identify all the peaks and the dips. Then simply eq them.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_itwvtbs wrote

Yes, I started to tweak some more with the EQ and it can REALLY tame the brightness down.

Edit: will have to see where this goes though. I think there's a limit to how much you can EQ brightness down without killing the actual headphone's overall sound.

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Murky_Particular2137 t1_itx4qns wrote

K702 owner here. Also had a problem with harsh, even painful highs. One thing I tried is changing donut-shaped foam into glorious toilet paper mod to cut a bit of the highs, and then try to EQ it. Now i have different pads on (YIVO velour): harshness is gone, bass is boosted but not too much (i don't eq them anymore) they are more soft and comfy on my head. So I would try that.

EDIT: I think that even after eq stock k702 is a bit harsh.

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justaalawstudent OP t1_iud23iv wrote

So after a lot of experimenting with the EQ, I found out that the DAC/AMP have nothing to do with what I was hearing. They just revealed what I later found out to be a pretty grotesque 10-12khz peak on the K702 frequency response. After I EQd it down, the harshness I was hearing is gone. If I switch back to Oratory's preset, it just sounds ridiculously bright and impossible to listen to, so I'll no longer be using that. I'm now enjoying this combo very much, thank you all for helping.

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