CleanOutlandishness1 t1_je6xle7 wrote on March 29, 2023 at 9:10 PM

Reply to comment by EuphoricEcho in Why do people buy more than thousand dollar headphones instead of speakers? by BC_LOFASZ

wrong answer

WatchAndEatPopcorn t1_je7bpno wrote on March 29, 2023 at 10:50 PM

Not trying to argue, but how is that the wrong answer? Wouldn't a bad room or ill-placement of the speakers completely ruin the frequency response?
I've got decent studio monitors, but they lack the detail of even a $100 IEM, and I also don't get to feel much bass because those frequencies are almost entirely cancelled out in my garage.

CleanOutlandishness1 t1_je9chl1 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 11:09 AM

I wasn't being fully serious.

I like to keep it light, i swear i'm not a troll.

But to be a little more serious, speakers is just a better way to listen to music and sound in general. I don't know a single sound engineer that mix primarily on headphones. Sure if the room acoustic is dogshit and your standing 30 feet from the speakers it won't be great. If you poke random holes in your headphone then soak it in bath water, it won't be great either. I understand those two things are not the same, i'm sorry i like to keep it light.

I also got studio monitors, and i have those 5 feet from me, it cost 200€ and it was already better than any headphone i tried before i treated my room and bought a sub and did EQ. if you are close to the speakers and are a little careful about where you place it, the room treatment is less important in my experience. I get plenty of details too.

I understand why it might get people upset on the headphone sub, but OP question was fair. Most people that go deep in buying gear will tell you that after a certain threshold, the money spend isn't proportionate to the upgrade. As far as i know, i'd rather spend 400€ for a good sub than the same money for a new headphone that will do some stuff better than my hd650 but some things worse. Even if i spend a thousand € on a hd800, i'll probably get a great soundstage but it will never be as good as the soundstage i'll get with my 200€ speakers. So to me the room treatment isn't really a valid reason. If you got a really shitty room acoustic, unless your living in a stadium it will cost you much less to treat it than a thousand bucks headphone.

Don't get me wrong, i love headphones and i definitely would buy a focal clear and a hd800 and one of those planar if i ever get plenty of cash for it. But that would not replace the good old speakers. It would be for quiet listening sessions and to get a great listening experience abroad or on a trip.

WatchAndEatPopcorn t1_jeatkvw wrote on March 30, 2023 at 5:46 PM

Where I sit next to my window in my garage, which overall is the only ideal place to sit, with my $600 studio monitors, I can barely hear kick drums because 50-60 hz is nulled out. Also, another considerable dip around 120hz... Not an easy fix there and kind of a deal breaker for a lot of the music I listen to.

For roughly the same amount of money, I can have HD650s with a tube amp and use Ghz's CanOpener + a slight room reverb plugin to get an amazing, and consistent performance anywhere in the room. No, I can't feel the lower hz with the headphones, but I can at least hear them, and I don't feel them with the monitors anyway. Also, I can lay in the hammock with the same HD650s and a Qudelix and get pretty close sound quality, but with the benefit of being in a hammock.

So, yeah, if you have the room for it, speakers are great! But IMO the headphones win hands-down if you don't have a good room.

CleanOutlandishness1 t1_jeblx4s wrote on March 30, 2023 at 8:46 PM

Hey man, to each his own.

The lower frequencies can be tricky to treat. But i feel that with that amount of money you should be able to get decent monitors plus a sub. You can usually move around the sub, more so than front speakers.

In my studio, i use a 500€ sub. There's really no headphone in the world that can make you feel those kick. But in my living room i use a 20€ sub that i got from second hand market, it goes down to 40Hz. I won't go on a long ass piece on how the difference in price is really justified between those two, but if you just want to hear the kick and you don't care about other considerations, it would fill the task.

I'm pretty sure there is a (cheap) solution to your problem, even tho i couldn't tell exactly what it is without more informations.

WatchAndEatPopcorn t1_jec03u4 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 10:20 PM

I could probably use a sub to fix the 50hz null... but there are more dips than that...
If I watch this, there are dramatic dips in the volume along the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrEtyFSENc
I like accurate bass tones... so it's just an uphill battle and a constant headache, especially if I'm usually listening around 60-70db where the kick is far less pronounced.
The timbre and presence of a really good cello tone is hard to beat with my cans.

CleanOutlandishness1 t1_jec8jzj wrote on March 30, 2023 at 11:20 PM

Well, as i say, the important part is that you're happy.

Despite all i've written, having a good room to listen your stuff does make quite the difference. It's a little sad that you only have your garage to listen on speakers. I bet there's a lot you can do to improve your experience but if there is too many logistical constraints, you might still end up with a somewhat poor setup.

Personnally, i do have some dips in the lower bass, not horrible ones tho, and it still beat any of my headphones including the 650 and other ones with close to perfect frequency response measures on the low end of the spectrum.

It's really something else to listen to cello or double bass in good conditions. the absolute best of course is to listen to it live in a good venue. Listening to orchestral stuff in a church is pretty damn wild. I usually hate stadiums or big industrial type of venues.

WatchAndEatPopcorn t1_jefgbnd wrote on March 31, 2023 at 4:56 PM

So, for the record, I was inspired to try something... took a 500 watt bass amp and cabinet and supplemented the bass... Still, where I'm sitting 50hz is dead silent. I can't fix the fact that the 50hz wave is roughly 20% longer than the length of my garage and nulls out in this spot. It's absolutely wild how a 50hz test tone is silent in this spot. It's just the geometry of the room.

If I move my desk 3 feet back, it's plenty loud... absolutely rattling the walls, but then I'm literally sitting in front of my entryway.

This is obviously very specific case, but not a unique problem. I happen to like sitting next to the window and not in the doorway and I hate not hearing (and ideally feeling) the thud of kick drum.

CleanOutlandishness1 t1_jeg5z9v wrote on March 31, 2023 at 7:45 PM

The bass amp is an interesting solution lol, my sub is "only" 150w and that's plenty. I imagine it's just out of curiosity and not an intended fix.

Didn't even tought about wavelength, my studio isn't anywhere close to 32 feet but i had a crazy peak in 33hz, i wouldn't know what to make of this. Have you tried moving the amp around ?