[deleted]

Moondrop and Hifiman have challenged the contentious sub-$1000 market with the Venus and Edition XS. While the Edition XS shows no real surprises, proving to be a normal Hifiman product, the Moondrop Venus is the company’s first planar magnetic headphone, coming in with few expectations with regard to tuning. Are they worthy enough to stave off upgrade-itus?

As a reminder, these are opinions and are in no way are meant to insult anyone who may have purchased either of these headphones. If the reader owns these headphones and feels insulted by anything said in this review, keep in mind I write reviews to inform readers of any issues they may have with a product.

Read more: https://den-fi.com/hifiman-edition-xs-moondrop-venus/

Bold words, but I agree.

It is really HARD to beat the HD 600/650. I'd even go a step further and say it is really hard NO MATTER how much you spend.

Especially seeing how, tonaly speaking, something like the LCD 5 or Utopia are mere imitations of the 600 formula.

You get more soundstage with those two and better bass extension, sure. But, 5000€ can also buy the HD 800S, which has wider soundstage than either of them AND a pair of KEF R3s PLUS a subwoofer, which makes for a killer speaker setup in addition to the 800S.

I would really never ever use the Edition XS without EQ. It sounds very weak and shrill.

BUT, with EQ they are my preference over the HD6 series and its cousins. The XS will never have the timbre of the HD6 series, but for the music I listen to (mostly metal) the Edition XS are an obvious winner, but that's just me.

You could have a recommendation list, even if you are against it, another point of reference to value is welcome, also have you tested/reviewed the Sundara?

Tried the Sundara. Liked the sound, hated the construction.

I always enjoy reading your reviews, even though we seem to have diametrically opposite preferences.

Interesting. I pretty much never use my XS with EQ. Don't find them to be shrill or weak at all. Do you just tweak manually or use some EQ profile?

I'm always surprised when I read stories of people who spent a lot of money on cans to then simply go back to their 600/650 setups. I still want to try a ZMF headphone one day though.

I'd pick DCA Closed or Open X over these two any day of the week

It entirely depends on the kind of music you listen to. Jazz sounds fine without any EQ.

The Edition XS lacks bass for me and it doesn't have the midrange prettiness of the HD6 series to make up for it. Again, I listen to mostly metal so the XS is near unusable to my ears that way, obviously not everyone feels that way.

The Headphone Show has a tutorial on how to EQ (in general) and in that video they give the Edition XS as an example, with an example tuning. I've modified it a little bit, smoothing out the midrange peak and reducing the bass shelf.

I think it's because they don't try to be something they're not.

They're not really price constrained, they do all they want to do regardless of price.

I suppose they don't go for other things like speed / bass response etc. What they do have is universally liked midrange capabilities and really good timbre.

I used to have a modded HD650 and then got a ZMF Atticus.

I thought the improvement with the Atticus was basically negligible and sold them within a week of ownership.

As much as I love my Caldera, my HD580 does get about as much, if not a little more use…

holy hell

Thanks! Understanding preferences is one of the most important things to learn in this hobby—I actually like to read opinions from people I’m diametrically opposed because they end up being about as helpful as opinions from people with whom I align.

I’m still waiting for Shangri-La Jr prices to drop; I thought they were a fun headphone that ends up being different enough from what I have

Makes sense! The strengths of the XS do align more with a metal-focused library than my more vocal-centric library.

Yup, you bet I'd rather listen to Steely Dan on my 660S.

Great review, ish! I found the XS to be very close to how you described it in the article. I had to manipulate the headphone quite a bit just to attempt to get a seal, and I'm pretty sure the bottom of the cup near the cable terminals sat below my jawline. The recent posts from you articulate precisely why I've been lukewarm on each new planar magnetic release since 2017.

Do you think moondrop is gonna make closed back planars like hifiman

Oh that's interesting, you've heard the Jr and think it's a fun headphone? Yet your opinion on the Susvara is pretty low, so the Jr must do something differently enough to not fall into the same bucket as its wood-veneered sibling. Would you mind expanding a bit on what you find different between them?

The general view I've seen is that the Susvara is a bit more well-rounded and a better pick than the Shangri-La Jr, but I've also read impressions favoring the Jr. I've never had the chance to hear the Susvara for myself, so I'm always interested in comparisons. Also, at a headphone meet last year, someone who had owned the Susvara for some time heard my SGL Jr and said he liked the Jr much better. He actually told me that I shouldn't bother seeking out the Susvara, as the Jr is better; he said that the Susvara, while having good bass and great detail, "sucked the enjoyment out of everything". Which is pretty similar to your take on the Susvara being sterile. So I have no idea what lies in store for me if I ever get to hear the Sus for myself.

The background is that when I heard it, I happened to own an SR-007 system at the time and had some misgivings about it: obviously tonality is never going to be a Stax strength, but the ethereal, light presentation really limited their use for me. They were great for relaxing and not actively focusing on music, such as during the work day, but when I’m critically listening, I want something with more substance. It’s been a while since I’ve heard the Jr (last time I heard it was back in 2018 I think?) but what I do recall was that it had more upper midrange presence, more low midrange body, and less harsh mid-treble. I’m not sure which of the two would win out in resolution, but my takeaway from it was that it was a nice take on a “weightier” sounding 007 SZ2.

The Susvara, from memory, leaned brighter and leaner. I do agree it sucked the life out of a lot of my music but most Susvara fans I know seem to be detail-chasers rather than tone-purists.

BINGO. The Edition XS has nice clarity, detail and soundstage. But the note weight is so thin compared to listening to an Audeze LCD-2C or LCD-X 2021 or any Dan Clark Audio planar under $1,000.

Again, I’ve totally fixed that with EQ, planars take it quite well.

I wouldn’t say it lacks substance, just needs more oomph from the bass range.

I’ll also add, the headphones benefited a lot from a good DAC and Amplifier

As meh as it is at least the venus could be a nice decoration on your desk.

If Hifiman have annoying treble for you I don't know how do you feel about Beyedynamics, and Meze109 and many more actually bright headphones.

Dope

Beyers bother me a lot but they do have a different treble emphasis section. The 109 was overwhelmingly meh to me with bright treble but it wasn’t deal-breakingly annoying up top for me

Yeah I think the treble region is the most subjective part of headphones frequency response. Different ear shapes and HRTF leads to massive differneces in perception of detail, sibilance and overall brightness. Even the brightest Hifimans like HE1000se is more pleasant to my ears compared to Beyers.

Great review. I'll chime in and say that for those prioritizing musicality/timbre/warm tonality, the Edition XS will not be your cup of tea. In terms of staging/resolution/PRaT, the Edition XS is fantastic in my view.

A stock Edition XS will not provide the same intimate, musical engagement factor for certain genres that are vocal/acoustic-centered the same way an HD6x0 will for example. However, for electronic/pop/guitar-centered music, the Edition XS has been an amazing addition to the rotation.

> really HARD to beat the HD 600/650. I'd even go a step further and say it is really hard NO MATTER how much you spend

I feel pretty complete in my headphone journey, but the frequency in which I see comments like this makes me really want to pick up a 6XX.

I'm not sure that I'd like it, though. I have a set of HD555s with a foam-delete mod, and they're probably my least favorite in my collection for sound signature. I don't know how reflective the 555 would be of the 6XX's sound, but if it's more similar than different, then the 6XX wouldn't be for me. As it is, I EQ a bit more bass into my Sundaras to get them where I like them.

You're Kyle? I just read this review as it was suggested to me, and was surprised. Despite countless people calling the xs their budget end game you absolutely hated it. I have them myself, and with a touch of eq they are outstanding especially to someone who doesn't want to spend any more than that on some cans. Even without eq they are very well balanced tuning with plenty of detail and great Soundstage.

Totally fine to think that! I tried EQing them beyond just boosting the 2k region and they just do too many things that bug me to outright recommend them. I don’t hate them though, I feel “meh” about them. They aren’t particularly offensive for the money but I certainly won’t buy a pair.

The detail bit is really what I can’t say I agree with—they have hyped air which does make things easier to hear, especially combined with the lack of dynamics to lessen contrast and thus make the delta between loud sounds and quiet background sounds smaller. But when a transducer lacks that dynamic contrast, it emphasizes things that shouldn’t be as obvious in real life, like conversations in a crowd during a live session. That technically is detail, but as a result, you miss nuance. This in particular bugs me in instances where the speed of the decay is unnaturally fast, as is the case with the XS. For example I hear a saxophonist playing a run, it’s fun to hear the pads of the keys press against the instrument and naturally trail off; with most planars, you can hear the pad hit the horn, but because they’re so “fast,” you don’t hear the trailing decay as cleanly as you do with a dynamic headphone. The compression makes the actual pressing of the key’s pad making contact with the saxophone easier to hear, but you then wait for a decay that ends too quickly. It’s a surface-level sense of detail.

Well aware. I own Audeze planars, which have far better bass both stock and with EQ than HiFiMan.

Its very easy to beat hd600 series sound. Going from editon xs to hd600, the hd600 is a muddled mess, no bass extension and rolled off treble. The sundara easily beats hd600 series headphones as well.

I find XS to be great with stuff like rap/lofi or other types of music with bass focus, but without eq it's horrible for electric guitars in my opinion.

I don’t doubt that, but the XS and those planars are at completely different price points.

One thing I found through my previous job in audio sales.... I still prefer my ADH-700 and 700X over about anything 500 USD+ I've listened to. Pair that with my Fiio K5 Pro I have running it and I've always been a happy camper.

That said, some amazing headphones exist out there, I just can't justify the cost for myself.

I enjoy your reviews, too. I was interested in the Moondrop Venus because i like their IEMs and even bought a Moondrop Keyboard with integrated DAC (how cool is that?) for my office but after reading your Venus review I'm looking to Focal Elear now.

Did you had a chance to try a Focal Elear?

I said hard, not impossible.

But the fit and durability of the Chifiman's aint for everyone.

I won't buy them, simply because they feel like toys with their rattly assembly, the cups don't swivel enough, unless you pay 1500€ fir tha arya and their lack of QC on models like the XS and even Susvara makes me not wanna give them my money.

A 600 series with Oratory EQ does the job just as well, whilst being of higher quality and from a more reputable brand.

You should try the 109 pros. Tried most mid range headphones and it’s easily my favourite. To me there is just something magical with them.

May I have your EQ profile for Metal.

I also have the Edition XS and I also use them for metal, but I never EQ'd them.

Check out the Headphone Show youtube video on EQ’ing headphones. That’s essentially what I’m using.

>heck out the Headphone Show youtube video on EQ’ing headphones. That’s essentially what I’m using

Thank you!

Not really. Dan Clark Aeon Open X are $429 at Drop. Audeze LCD-X can be purchased new on Black Friday for $450 and used for $450-500 year-round.

Curious to know what you think of the Arya’s treble and bass compared to the XS? I’ve always wondered how the two compared to each other.

Random aside, but I like that painting of a cat on the wall in the background!

[deleted]

I have the XS, 600 and 650. XS are totally different - I wouldn't even compare them. I like both. The XS sound like I hung speakers from my head. Don't have anything else that sound like that. Very comfortable and easy to listen to all day. I was very curious about the Hifiman sound/lineup. Was super happy they released the XS, which by all accounts sound nearly as good (and some say better) than their more expensive counterparts.

I have the 650s, the 599SEs, and I just finally bought the 600s - because they went on sale and I wanted to finally hear the differences for myself. To be honest, the 599SEs are damn good for the money. In fact, I did a headphone comparison with a buddy of mine (that's big into hi-fi and home theater but not into headphones at all) where I had him try about 6 pairs of my headphones. In doing direct comparisons between the 650 and 599se, having no idea what they cost, actually preferred the 599s over the 650s. The 650s warm sound takes some time getting used to them to appreciate their sound (in my opinion). For me it took getting a tube amp to sort of rediscover my 650s and appreciate them more. Something to consider.

I haven't done a good comparison to the 600s yet to form a solid opinion, but out of the box I think I like their sound signature better than the 650s too. But all this is very subjective of course. Seems like which one of the 6x0 series you like best is pretty much up to personal preference.

>like i hung speakers from my head

great, another one who has never listened to speakers.

You also think the Miata drives like a Honda CBR 1000, only because its a tad bit lighter than your regular car?

I dont like my XS for metal, too analytical sounding

Dan clark open headphones sound closed

The only audio equipment that's broken on me were the Sennheiser Momentum TWS 3 and Sennheiser IE80 IEMs. But I know people are going to say "that's not what Sennheiser is known for".

I've listened to Speakers. The XS sounds big. I'm not into speaker setups, but the XS easily sounds better than my Elac Debut Reference speakers.

That's kinda why I don't like them, they have like two strengths and the rest is very meh.

Three blob, very little separation, very narrow and closed sounding, everything kinda smears together and sounds hollow. Mids sound good, timbre is decent, but it lacks on everything else.

It's just far, far too little for me. I can get good mids and timbre with some EQ, I can't really get the rest without absurd measurements that we don't have an a convolution filter.

> A 600 series with Oratory EQ does the job just as well

It really doesn't do it even close to as well. I've toyed around with the 6XX for a long time, I still do. EQ is like, my personal magic bullet for SO MUCH SHIT in headphones, I love it.

No amount of EQ makes the bass sound like anything but a mud cannon with zero definition, nothing makes them feel larger or more clear with good separation, nothing fixes the three blob imaging. They have timbre and mids, two things you CAN fix with EQ, and... that's it. Everything else is pretty damn bad. And I've fixed tons of headphones with similar issues, and none of them have this problem...

The drivers on them are over-dampened to hell and it's unbelievably audible.

HD600 are much better in my experience, but that bass roll-off isn't really fixed by EQ either, because it distorts the whole damn thing when you do it. Those drivers are very dated and it shows, when it comes to boosting frequencies in EQ.

Holy shit your review and feelings on the edition xs is my exact reason for not like them. A weak sound that lacks the nice vocals of my HD650s.

Idk they have a hot spot in the treble

I dislike guitars on them, too soft/veiled or emotion-less sounding

Bro you need to fix your site nothing will load.

Hm, I have no audible distortion with the Oratory preset. Maybe my listening levels are just not loud enough for it to be an issue.

Like, people complained about the clear driver clipping and I make fun of it myself, whenever I can, but I needed too boost the bass to ungodly levels and listen louder than I normally would, to get it clipping.

This, just like your tale and all the people complaining about powerful enough amps being to quiet, just reinforces my belief that many people in this hobby are listening at ungodly levels.

Stay safe, people. Hearing aida are expensive!

I listen at 75-80 dB at most, it's not that loud. It's very specific to the 6X0 series, is the thing. I usually don't have this problem with other drivers.

Then again, I listen almost entirely to planars. There is something about that driver that just works better to my ears. Dynamics always have some quality to them that sounds... I hate to use this term for audio because it's stupid, but low-res. Details are meh, separation is meh. It's like the sound is blurry. Even the best of the best, it has this quality.

Except for speakers, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Driver types don't matter. What matters is FR at the ear drum.

I believe your "low res" experience is due to marketing telling you that planars are "better" and "more advanced" making confirmation bias kick in. Just like the Stax crowd thinks a 1k boost and utter lack of sub bass "lets you hear god", because "Its the best in the world since 1960".

I am certain that if people were told a headphone was a planar and it had linear bass with good fr, they would just repeat all the "planar bass" and "speed" stick, even though it really was a dd .

> Driver types don't matter. What matters is FR at the ear drum.

While this is technically true, planar drivers by design are able to deliver a more linear response than dynamic drivers are able to. Driver types AFFECT FR at the eardrum.

That is why dynamic drivers have roll-off in the treble and bass, and why good speakers have multiple drivers to cover different parts of the response. Trying to get all of them to cover 20 hz to 20 khz has its drawbacks, and we can see that in most dynamic driver FR graphs.

> I believe your "low res" experience is due to marketing telling you that planars are "better" and "more advanced" making confirmation bias kick in

Definitely not, I am not subjectivist by any stretch of the word, I argue with audio magic believers all the time, just check my comment history, lol. I'm a recording engineer. I know how this stuff works, it's my job to understand it.

In this case, FR at the eardrum is different in every headphone, they even change based on how the cups are positioned on your head, and FR measurements that we have of them are only accurate up to 10 khz, and even then, they're still smoothed over. There's tiny little differences in the response that account for a driver's properties, which is why with current tech, we can't EQ KSC75 to sound like Susvara.

Then, you start getting into the fact that some drivers, measurably, objectively, distort the more you mess with them, compared to others. Planars TEND to distort less, but there are plenty of dynamic drivers that are fine too.

In my experience, the HD6X0 series is not a driver type that handles EQ well, at least below about 400 hz. Treble/Mid EQ works just fine on it, which is why you can fix the recessed treble the 6XX has without issue.

But the bass... good god. It becomes a mud canon with only a little bit of a boost... Then again, it's a mud cannon at stock too, it's just bloated and has no definition whatsoever. HD600 handles this far far better, though the bass overall is reduced.

No, the reason why it sounds that way to me on some headphones is because a lot of driver adjustments are done with dampening, and the 6XX (my main dynamic drivers I personally own) are over-dampened, and it's very obvious when you listen to them.

Like you said, all that really matters is FR at the eardrum. My Ananda are heavily EQ'd, and even when using the same exact setup, measurements, target, etc etc, the Ananda do not have any of the negative qualities I'm used to hearing from the 6XX.

And I know it isn't in my head, because I have level-matched tests (done within 0.1 dB with an SPL meter) with them for people who have ZERO idea about how anything audio-related works, not told them what's what, and they report to me the exact same thing I hear. As in, my fucking mom noticed what I said without me asking or prompting anything related to the sound, and she barely understands how to open files on a computer.

Planars are not inherently better at delivering more linear FR. The roll of in bass is a function of the resonance frequency and unsealed front volume. Modify either and you get linear bass on a dynamic driver. Alternatively EQ cam get you there as well.

Rough treble can happen with planars just as well as with dynamics. also measurements up there are unreliable and smoothed, so you don't really know whats going on.

I never said we could get a KSC to sound like speakers (well in theory you could but thats like arguing that you could also in theory create a black hole on earth) or whatnot, I just argued driver types don't matter, FR does. Your ear does not give two fucks whether a tone is generated by bird, human vocal chords or a speaker.

Ah yes, your golden ears can hear the "overdampned" driver and presumably you can aslo hear the grass grow.

I'm out fam. People who think their human ears are the end all be all of measuring instruments, like you, are not the type if crowd I want to associate with.

I mean,TO MY EYES the earth is flat sigh.

I have; I assumed it was a mildly overpriced $300 headphone and was shocked to learn it was much more than $300.

I have! I actually wrote about it back in 2016 on my old personal site: https://web.archive.org/web/20170126222051/http://www.verumsonus.com/focal-elear-review/

I haven’t heard them directly side by side but from memory, which may not be reliable, the treble on the Stealth Arya was more elevated and didn’t sound as mildly warm-leaning compared to the XS.

Thank you! We just hung him up.

What’s not loading? I haven’t seen other complaints so we’ll look into whatever isn’t loading.

I can click the direct link to the post, but if I click reviews or anywhere else, it just hangs.

Awesome review, thanks!

What would you rather use?

Very interesting, thanks. I am but a neophyte, but I tried the referenced LCD-2Cs last week, and they are currently my favourite cans over a stack of Focal, Hifiman, and Sennheiser headphones (admittedly the DAC/amp was different for these tests, so it is not remotely scientific).

Since I am new to the sport, I wanted to check to see what other folks thought of this device, and Josh Valour (on YouTube) was ecstatic about them. Intriguing how people hear things so differently!

I have a pair of JBL 305P MkIIs for my desktop setup, and they have pretty much stopped my search and interest for headphones. Other than needing a subwoofer for deeper bass, they sound just as good as my HD600's IMHO.

If you want soundstage and clarity, go for the Edition XS. If you want sub-bass and note weight, go for the Dan Clarks.

I have thousands of dollars worth of speakers. It's a colorful analogy. Calm down.

Sure...

Arya or focal clears.

I already have edition xs and find them boring to listen to

I've had a look at the video and tried out the eq setting he did. My impression is still that the XS sounds pretty damn fine without eq. It's of course worth a try though. Btw I also listen to metal a lot and also sometimes even use the XS for practicing guitar, to me it's fine.

What kind of metal, bands genres etc.

Stuff like Caladan Brood, Dissection, Opeth, Vintersorg, Hamferð, Watain, some Stoner, Kyuss and such...

Based, and double checked. Blues for the Red Sun for example sounds perfectly fine without the EQ, maybe a bit piercing if anything.

Watain’s debut doesn’t gain too much from the EQ either.

Pestilence’s Consuming Impulse I feel does benefit from the EQ, it becomes a lot meatier (IMO as it should).

Ahab’s The Call of the Wretched Seas also benefits more as it’s a more atmospheric album and uses that bass headroom quite well. Without the boost in the low end, it sounds a bit weak.

Again it all depends 😳 I also have a EQ profile where all the changes are 50% of what they originally are. So it’s kind of between that EQ profile and without EQ.

Yep. The Edition XS is more clinical than enjoyable. Still a super headphone for $500 if you seek clarity and soundstage more than energy.