Are you happy?

That's my biggest fear is getting my "end game" dac/amp & not being fully satisfied. 😓

It depends on expectations, doesn't it?

What do you dislike and is there anything else you've tried and for long have you been listening?

I've pretty much settled on a more or less modded HD6XX and tubes. Laid back sound is my jam. Could it maybe just be that you fear missing out on more? I feel like this is the driving force of many purchases made in the adiophile market. Always craving that little bit of more and better sound. To me, even after having heard the HD800, that stuff simply doesn't exist (yet). Heck the only thing that I want to try are ZMF headphones, but for now I am done.

Enjoy your music, that's the main thing about all of this! Have fun and if your setup is new: brain burn in is real. It might take some time to start appreciating these headphones and once it clicks you might never stop listening again.

Endgame =/= Not happy

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I've been listening Sundara last half of the year and all that time hunted for upgrade sound from Zen Dac. To be honest I've finished this game too early. I sold DT 770 Pro in favor of Sundara's neutrality and had chance to try HE 4xx, HD 58x and Deva Pro (and compare them). Sundara is definitely better headphone but difference of price, not quality, so significant, my wallet says stop finding rabbit in the hole. So I get stuck with that gear and happy only about 80%. Maybe a second pair of headphones for example 6xx would make me feel better? I'm joking. Audiophilia is a disease.

The 6XX is probably much less engaging than the Sundara lol. It's definitely not a "wow" headphone. It's maybe the most relaxed thing ever. However, if you like acoustic music and jazz and such, it's great.

Anyway. I'd focus more on the music than on the gear. That's always the best thing you can do!

Hey there. I've finally completed my desktop setup: HifiMan Sundara, ifi Zen Dac v2 and SMSL SH8s. Not sure this is a great combination but I'm not able to search for something else.

I've been falling in love with Sundara for the last half of the year. Nevertheless my brain needs some fresh emotions, which I didn't get with HE 4xx, HD58x and Deva Pro as second alternative headphones - they are slightly worse. I'm not able to buy something from the Sennheiser 600 series and don't want especially after 58x.

This is not a very happy end game for me, but I'm done. Ready to answer the questions about that gear.

I also find it hard to upgrade from the zen Dac v2. It’s so good. Tip is, they do sound better with a 5V 2amp brick. 😇

It looks cool if that matters at all.

Yet another “I’ve tried 3 headphones and this is my endgame!!!” post

I have tried using USB and a power brick (from my Zen Can) on my Zen Dac V2. A/B testing, 1 week on, 1 week off... I absolutely hear no difference. 🤷

not happy? oh well, it's time to buy some new stuffs....

Maybe get something that goes a little wider to complement these like the K712 or hell even the SHP-9500. I love those things.

It is a disease. I hate to break it to you, but you won’t see significant improvements until you break out of mid fi range (below $500). I tried all the usual suspects in that price range 4xx, 6xx, Sundara, Meze 99, DT 990. All have good aspects and quality headphones.

However, for my birthday last year I got the LCD-X and finally understand what a solid all around headphone should sound like. I’m not saying it’s the best out there, but it’s quality and doesn’t lack in areas like the other headphones do.

I periodically go back and listen to my older headphones and think these are good. Then I plug in the LCD-X (balanced to my Zen DAC v2) and wonder why I wasted listening time with my other headphones. I’m honestly afraid for my wallet as I’m lusting after a set of ZMF headphones.

Its not endgame if you arem't happy 😂

Yeah... it really does come down to expectations. I've got a small horde of headphones that all sound amazing and I love them to death, but there's just... something, not there. Horns could sound even better, bass could be punchier, guitars could... I don't even know. Something? I've spent thousands chasing it and there are times where it got close. HD800S with my turntable playing my original copy of Aftermath / 2011 press of Plastic Beach is one of the most natural and balanced experiences with audio I've had to date. But what if it could be better?

I've created a dragon in my head and I'm chasing something that doesn't exist. I don't regret any of my purchases, I've had a great journey and I'm content with where I am at before I spend sillier money. Which I won't do unless I win the lottery.

Basically, don't get your expectations so high that it becomes a dragon. It's not helpful in any way and it just leaves you feeling disappointed with frankly, fantastic gear.

Being real with you, if you buy a nice wire that's custom, it can bring some good vibes with headphones...I know it doesn't change the sound but I do like how it looks and feels

Have you met Orpheus ? have you been to a Can Jam or other type of audio show where you can at least experience what is out there, You experience the its wonderful but I wouldn't pay that feeling (50k insane hifiman valve amp + headphone setup ...), but it gives you perspective. I have a bunch of cans, I dont think I met the end game but yes I stopped buying, I do have an HD-800S and Audeze and Dan Clark but I'm good. It's a sickness a hobby and an addiction. But there are probably worse things. I have a number of hobbies as bad. As long as you can listen to your stuff and be happy , it doesn't have artifacts that irritate you and prevent you from enjoying the music. At some point its a diminishing of the veil adding detail and different sound signatures. And synergy its often about the synergy.

Great advice / story, thank you. Currently have the hd660s & looking for a good dac/amp. I know they dont NEED a dac amp to run but I just want cleaner/crispier sound. Currently running it off a a Syba Sonic gaming dac/amp & it has plenty of power to run the HD660S. Right now looking into the Topping DX3 Pro+ as my end game.

Speaking from experience, you’ll spend a lot of money real quick if you let this hobby do so. I went from the hd58x, the ananda, then the Arya. After nearly a year, I then got the hd800s. For the price, the ananda gets like 90% of the way there, if not more, compared to the Arya.

Like some have already said, going from the 6xx to the sundara isn’t exactly a jump, more like a sidegrade. To really get an actual upgrade, you’d probably need to go for the ananda instead. That could easily be your endgame and you’d be done

Hires sticker? U added ur self?

Thank you! I love sharing stories with my gear, I can't lie :D

The HD6X0 Series are just fantastic, I had a HD600 for a while before I traded to my beloved Grado RS2e and part of me to this day wonders if I made the right call there because as much as I love the Grado, the HD600 was something speical. I will say, personally, I think DAC / Amps are all snake oil past a certain point. So, look into it a little more before you pull the trigger.

I currently use a BTR5 for mobile use and a $30 Behringer UMC22 for my digital desktop side. I had a Topping A30 II / L30 II DAC / Amp stack and I honestly... after dB matching, I couldn't hear a difference between that and my UMC22 with my HD800S which people claim is a very source dependant headphone. I gave it all the benefit of the doubt too, ran it side by side through Roon. It was all the same. The most expensive amp I've tested is the Naim Uniti Atom and, again, it sounds exactly the same, but it does have a cool screen and dial on the top.

Something to consider, having a good source is good of course, but anything audiophile grade will all just sound the same.

Thank you again. The thing is I'm coming from "gamer grade" with the Syba Sonic leaping into REAL HiFi territory with the DX3 Pro+. Only time will tell. I'll let you know once I get it (soon).

Hope to hear about it! Enjoy!

For what it's worth, the 58X is a bit of a meh headphone. I've had my eye on the HD600 for a while though. You could always check out IEMs if you want a new listening experience to complement your headphones.

They’ll be getting a new pair of something in a few years regardless when the Sundara drivers fail

I prefer the crispiness and imaging of my 660 over the soundstage and (slightly more) bass of the Sundara 🤷‍♂️

Hmmmmm what do you not like or wish to improve upon the Sundara?

What type of music do you listen to and kind of sound do you like?

Also in this hobby it's common to buy and sell gear, if you're not happy with it then sell your current gear and buy a different gear. Though before we go with this you might have to explain what kind of sound you want.

Also the other 3 headphone you listed are all cheaper than the Sundara so it kind of make sense it's lower tier....?

But yeah if there is a store where you can try all the headphones it helps a lot.

For example I don't like neutral sound so 80% of the audiophile suggestions doesn't apply to me LOL. But I know I don't like neutral so I look for non-neutral sound. I feel like if we know what you're looking for then we can steer you to the right direction.

You need to spend more $$$ and you’ll be happy 😆

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you can grab a pair of delta airline headphone used for a week then comeback to sundara, instant happiness

Guess it's not your end game then?

If you don't totally like your setup - then you haven't actually reached your "endgame". When I first tried planars (the he4xx), I was really impressed with them - but after awhile I started to hear their shortcomings. I started looking for other planar options for a "reasonable price".

I then bought the Sundara, then the Ananda, and finally the Arya V2 - and now the Arya Stealth. After treading water in the mid-priced, mid-fi lines - I didn't start to really hear "endgame" until I got the Aryas. Before that point I was just spending money on "side-grades", and before long I had spent more on them than if I would have just bought a high-end setup. In the end, that's what I did - went ahead a got a mostly high-end setup - some of them from the used markets. I wound up with a mid-level SMSL SU-9 DAC, then a used Gustard H20 discrete Class A BAL amp, and the Aryas - plus, better interconnects, cables, Hi-Rez streaming like Tidal, and media players like Audirvana. Now I actually hear "endgame" and have really stopped looking for "better" - because now my setup is wholly immersive and it'd cost me at least another ~$1.5K to even try.....

My guess is that now you're hearing the shortcomings of your setup - both of the headphones and of your sources - all of which are really solidly in the mid-fi categories, not having the performance or sound qualities of better, more revealing setups - that are also more expensive unless bought used.

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I feel like the diminishing returns set in very fast. If you have a “normal income” you can do extremely well for not a lot of money.

I love high end gear. I love reading about it and messing around with it, but never have I gone to a high end show and thought THIS room is 1000x better than mine. I’d rather have my room/headphone setup and say….a vacation home or a Porsche

Edit: but that’s me. Props and respect to the guys out there pushing the limits

There is no endgame without EQ ;)

The dac/amp do so little in the end. A single band EQ does more than the difference between an Apple dongle and a multikilobuck stack imo.

Perhaps buying new things is not the path to happiness.

660… crispiness?

Just misinformed. I mean I’m pretty sure those plus soundstage are the 6X0 series 3 major downfalls. Smooth, close, 3 blob.

Exactly, the Sundara was perfect for me compared to the 660, loved it so much that I just decided to get an Ananda as a slight upgrade to the Sundara.

I started with a DT-990 Pro and then I went all in and tried most of the highly recommended things in Midfi: Edition XS, Ananda, Elex, Aeon Open X, HE6SE and ended up loving the difference so much that I had to know what the Arya was like. Jeez what a difference. Everything in that category was already a big step up and so I wanted to know but wondered what more there could be. For me personally, this was when I felt like I finally transcended. Everything in that midfi category sounded incredible but the Arya was the first time I fully disappeared into the music. I was in a new world. I don’t know if that is the same for everyone but it wasn’t until I broke that threshold that everything came alive.

From there I tried some IEMs and eventually got the Audeze iSine10. They destroyed every IEM I had heard and so I had to hear the Audeze sound and picked up a pair of LCD-3. It was intoxicating. Smooth and liquidy but also really detailed. Not as detailed as the Arya but I loved the warm/dark signature. I then traded my Arya for an LCD-24 and it was like another level again. More detail than the Arya but the warmth and impact I had to come to love from Audeze. I am now on an LCD-5 and woof. The detail is unparalleled and they just sound so natural. It was like transcending again. They are just insane.

It’s funny because I believe in diminishing returns but at the same time I personally have felt that at certain levels there are points where things just go to a different level. Are they 20x better as the price would indicate? Well no, but it is not the same experience at all so I don’t know where I sit lol.

Months*

Wasn't really happy till I got my clears ngl.

Have you considered a HD 650

I had that amp, sounded good. But, I read somewhere that it isn't a true balanced output and is nothing more than an alternate output for a balanced connector. I didn't look into it but that's what I heard.

I love my Zen Dac but when I look at everyone else zen and have that Hi Res sticker I look at mine like its counterfeit... Even though its authenticated and was from an authorized seller xD

Same here and I'm happy about it as it means I don't have to spent for a brick xD

I hit IEM endgame really quickly with Timeless, S12 + Qudelix then Z12 + Qudelix (broke timeless lost S12 + Qudelix).

I knew it wasn’t worth the slow upgrade path so for headphone I started at HD600, and ordered Arya Stealth along with 2 more Qudelix and 2.5mm cables.

Funny thing is I’m tempted to buy a set of KZ Ling Long as a tiny open back iem with Wu Zetian like tuning fascinated me.

Ah, thats what they all say.

I don't understand, why are you only 80 percent happy? Because you want to spend more money?

What's your source? Hopefully not Spotify...

> I've created a dragon in my head

In a way, yes. The reason this happens is because human minds are always, always trying to equalize with their environment. So if you get used to something, your brain will basically invent things it wishes it had because it got used to what it heard.

Best way to fix that; listen to worse gear for a bit, then wow yourself all over again.

I keep a pair of 6XX specifically so I can go back to my Ananda and go, "Man, literally everything is better, damn these things sound so fuckin' good."

Keeps me sane.

Mine have been on the fence for some time, I ordered mine around 2019 IIRC. If I bump a connector (randomly) one side goes dead. Sounds good, headband and ear cup fit is awesome, sadly their QA is crap. I'm eyeing Neumann nd30's or nd20's right now.

I recently bought an LD systems PA for sound stuff so can't drop any funds on that so far.

Porta Pro makes me happy, sp that's my end-game. Unless I find someone that makes meevern more happy some day. ^^

It's all about addiction to one single pair headphones. I've been finding exactly "that" sound last half of year and noticed that Sundara doesn't provoke me for fresh emotions. Some youtubers say you need a second pair to refresh feelings but I don't know.

I bought B-Stock item and it still literally like new besides ear pads of course.

Deezer HiFi more than enough. I can't hear difference between flac file from hard drive and streaming.

Damn, that sticker provides +30% to soundstage and +50 mW of power ;) I've connected SH8s exactly for these reasons.

Well, I think it's true, at least that amp sounds good but I gonna try balanced output of Zen Dac which is real.

Are there other decent headphones on the market besides HD 600 series? I'm not a fan of claustrophobic soundstage and veiled midrange.

Based on my flair, no.😎

Kidding go try the Edition XS or Arya or Meze 109 Pro or DT 1990 or bla bla many others out there

I have KZ and TRN iems which I suppose the same as your choice.

No, I'm already done.

I'm so damn close to my endgame but there's always something to go "no this isn't it". I'm happy with my headphones but it's my DAC/AMP.

Started off with an iFi Zen stack and it worked great with my PS5 and laptop... While I was at my desk. Turns out I barely use my desk and more lying in bed so most of the time it'd be unused.

Those went out and in came the FiiO BTR7. Again, worked great with my PS5 and laptop while letting me use my phone as well but the battery life was kinda crappy for my usage. Was always charging it and I was always worried about running out of charge when going outside.

That went out and now I have a FiiO M11 Plus. Battery - good, sound - good, now it stores all my music in one convenient place so all good now right? WRONG. It has massive lag in USB DAC mode and doesn't even work with my PS5 so I can't use it for gaming. Bought a FiiO K3 so I could use my headphones with my PS5 cause of it. A DAP is along the lines of what's endgame for me but it just needs the right software.

One day, I'll find the right endgame...

The main problem I had a high expectations for the Sundara. I'd consulted here in Reddit before decided to buy HiFiMan. They said Sundara is great for dimensional ambient, electronic, hip-hop and female vocal oriented music. Mostly agree with this advice but still looking a way to make midrange more smoother. I like smoothness of vinyl sound so tube amp might solve that imperfection.

The other 3 headphones I tried mostly out of curiosity to hear correlation between price and sound quality. First couple of hours with HE 4xx I really was thinking to sell Sundara) Now I have no doubt the 300$ headphones are more neutral and overall better.

I'd listened non-neutral V-shaped sound all my life so neutrality now is the breath of fresh air. More so it can be corrected in one way or the other using different type of DAC/AMP gear. I'm afraid I'm looking for a fun headphones completely opposite the Sundara.

Nope. I hope it's Easter egg from iFi.

All the gear were sold without losing money so I tried it for free. Does Ananda or any other headphones over 300$ worth the money? The Sundara provides all detail I can imagine. In addition hi-end headphones are required an appropriate dac\amp or my setup is quite enough?

I'm afraid there is a big mistake to try very expensive headphones without any possibility to buy it in the nearest future. May I ask, are you happy?

The ananda’s are really easy to drive. I would say the edition XS are also worth the money at $500, but they’re already so close to ananda territory and the latter is obviously better. There are definitely headphones over $300 that are worth it, it just depends on what you get. Most of them are not really worth the hassle.

Endgame for me is definitely the hd800s. It’s got all the soundstage I’ll ever crave, after eq it’s one of the best sounding setups I’ve ever had besides my higher end speaker setup, and they have resolution that gets close to TOTL stuff. It doesn’t have much bass at all though, but it’s still plenty wooly for everything out there.

What I would recommend is either an open boxed ananda at $600, or try and find a used hd800 for $700-$900. There is no harm in getting the original hd800. It’s brighter sounding, but you can take the same approach as the S version and just eq it and get the same result. Bass is cleaner sounding on those if you want a nice bass shelf. You would hardly take a loss on them, if you end up not liking them. Just because you could sell them for what you paid for them really. But it’s worth investigating. They’re a sandbox for eq because of how massive they sound on a lot of music. There’s plenty of tweaking to be had that suits your ears.

Their literal only weakness is lack of bass and dynamics, which the sundara isn’t exactly known for anyway. But if you want all the soundstage a headphone can offer, those are it. Ananda or OG hd800 would be the best bang for your buck, those are my recommendations.

You don’t need an amp for the ananda, they’re pretty portable. However, you would need a decent dac or amp for the hd800. Nothing crazy. Don’t let anybody tell you that you need a $1000 amp and dac, so long as you have a decently spec’d dac and amp to use, you’re fine

Do you know decent IEM? Would you recommend something? I've already have overhyped TRN VX and some low-end KZ.

maybe try getting the Sennheiser hd 660s?

Zen Dac v2 is used for 100% with 5v adapter and balanced output but I'm still not sure it's good enough for Sundara.

There is a difference only for power output. 5v adapter provides louder sound. I bought 5$ chinese adapter what more than enough.

I have my zen dac 2 going into smsl sp200 and drop THX AAA ONE. I've moved my topping e50 over to my speaker amp. I think I prefer the e50 to the zen dac.

Most of my headphones listening at the moment has been modded Fostex T50rp. My DT 990 are getting a bit more listening time ever since I did a balanced detachable cable mod. My 6xx are gathering dust.

Sorry, but that post about personally my end game, not for r/HeadphoneAdvice

Where is the path then? I'm sure I feel more happiness finding a good music but new things give a different presentation, sometimes completely another.

May I ask you how much emotions I lose with this mid-range equipment?

Makes sense. Got bored, want to chase a feeling. Sounds about right

End Game doesn't exist as long as you still have curiosity about what other gear potentially will sound like. My curiosity tends to be toward the <$200 outliers. Stuff that "punches above its price tag." I have a Zen Stack and an Ananda and I am very happy with it! But I still get curious about how good the cheaper stuff sounds. I also have curiousity about the more high end stuff too, but I know that the higher prices do not equal a comparable jump in quality over the gear I have, so I tend to leave those alone. I know that I will not be receiving a good enough value for my investment if I go in that direction. The Law of Diminishing Returns keeps me from going too far overboard. "Better" doesn't really exist in this hobby after a certain point. "Different" and "Highly Specialized in Certain Characteristics" is where the very expensive stuff generally goes.

Put on a good album and let yourself listen.

Personal end game does really exist. Maybe I was just finding a good combination for Sundara to emphasize all advantages of planars. Apparently I mostly agree with you.

Is there exist end game of the wallet ?

How many headphones I should try to be allowed write about personal end game?

Shouldn't be any difference between streaming and hard drive as long as the files are the same quality. Apple music is doing good things with high res too. Lots of content

If you really want them to sound good get a vinyl set up and really go down the rabbit hole

In my experience, gratitude, family, purpose, meaning, and mindfulness bring happiness. Enjoying music through headphones can definitely make you happy too. But the search for 'endgame' often provides only temporary happiness.

Edition XS gets you there for under $500 (close to $300 in Asia). It's a better all rounder than the LCD-X IMO, and is much better tuned out of the box, particularly through the upper mids. LCD-X is very muffled sounding stock due to the upper mids recess. LCD-X is transformed with EQ though and does have slightly better bass (I'd say better than anything else I've heard), although the Edition XS is no slouch there either. Soundstage is also much better on the XS.

I have both and I enjoy both, but if I could only keep one it would be the Edition XS and it's not close. That it's so much cheaper is just the icing on the cake, for me it's a better headphone even if it was priced the same.

xD

LCD-X “muffled?” We all have different ears. I have the 2021 version and “muffled” is not a word I would use to describe them.

Balanced and detailed come to mind when I think of the LCD-X. Also, great bass when powered with a good amp.

I haven’t tried the Edition XS yet and doubt there are any more Hifiman headphones in my future. Too many build quality issues with previous sets from them.

ZMF, DCA, Focal and Meze 109 Pro all need sampling first. But I get it $500 - $1500 for headphones is a lot of money and not everyone can afford that.

If you're not happy, then it's not end game

I think the Zen DAC is great for my Ananda! That TrueBass button gives it some tight, punchy and rumbly bass because it is a planar driver. I would think that it's the same for the Sundara. A straight DAC without a feature like that is probably not going to make huge difference, at least, not for the amount of extra money spent. It's just a digital decoder. For me, that bass button is my favorite feature and it is particular to the Ifi Zen DAC. I even double the effect with the Zen Can bass boost sometimes. That's way too much bass for certain headphones, but not for the Ananda. The Ananda is not tuned for a lot of bass but it is plenty capable of playing some of the most satisfying bass I've ever heard, if you have the right setup. It's different from using EQ, too. The bass button only adds low end without sacrificing the higher frequencies. When you mess with EQ it effects the other frequencies. It's also very easy to push the button and shut it off, if you want to. Some tracks I only use the bass on the Zen DAC. Others I like to double it up with the Zen Can. I'm not sure what particular area you feel is lacking with the setup you have, but if you think it's lacking bass maybe you should try out a Zen Can amp with the Zen DAC. I really love that combo for the specific bass effect that I cannot replicate on any other setup that I have tried, on the particular headphone I have. I'd like to know if there are other systems that do the same thing, actually. Since the Sundara is a planar brother of the Ananda I would be surprised if it didn't perform similarly on the Zen Stack.

I wouldn't call them misinformed considering they've listened to both the Sundara and 660S. The 660S stands out from the rest of the 6x0 lineup as it has a good (read: wider) soundstage and decent imaging.

I haven't listened to a Sundara in a while but if my memory serves me well, I'd call the mid range on the 660 crispier (vocals sounding muted and lack of slam were the reasons I upgraded). Depending on what you listen to, I could see how someone could come to that conclusion.

You can look at the frequency response, it is ~10dB below Harman at 4kHz. That's pretty muffled to me.

Or compare with the HD6XX which you own. That, to me, is just about perfectly tuned in the mids. It is not the most technically proficient headphone in existence, but the mids tuning, for my preference, is on point. The LCD-X is WAY recessed, comparatively.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/?share=Harman_AE_OE_2018_Target,HD650_S2_(2020)(fresh_pads),LCD-X(2021)

You can like this and find it warm, dark, relaxed, smooth, all this stuff. I find a -10dB chasm in the upper mids to sound muffled, and I correct it with EQ. It's a great headphone... after EQ.

Anyway, more just making the point you don't NEED to go to >$1,000 to get to "significant improvements". The Edition XS can be total end-game, I have several >$1,000 sets and it competes at that level despite costing much less. I'm not saying the LCD-X is bad either, I wouldn't have bought it if I thought it was bad. I bought it for the bass, and it delivered on that, it has the best bass of anything I have. But it needs EQ to fix the muffled upper mids, IMO.

Yeah, iFi's Zen lineup has plenty of useful features. Sometimes true bass is too much for me, overall depends of music genre. Hip hop or ambient music sound right with true bass. I read Zen Can xbass is way better, less impactful.

Do you use balanced connection of Zen Stack? Some youtubers say Zen Stack provides a bit thin, not very dynamic sound, it's could be an issue with planars. I think I'm struggling with very neat sound of Zen Dac, so SH8s has more "body" on the entire range of frequency.

About EQ, I hate it, it's awkwardly for daily using alongside other headphones with risk to get dirty sound. I'd tried EQ presets for Sundara and wasn't enjoyed.

I'm being limited yourself by digital records from vinyl

You will get new headphones as soon as you can afford new ones. That means these aren’t endgames.

Are you only listening to these and nothing else??Cause you know your brain gets used to the sound and it starts to feel boring no matter how good the headphone is.Great tip for everyone in the hobby is to get a few other decent headphones/IEMs with different sound signature and swap around on a regular and all of them will feel fresh and you won't get tired of your end game gear...

Clarity might be a better word? When A/B’ing the 660 & Sundara over 2 days, the Sundara sounded a bit muffled in comparison, almost like listening to a speaker in a gymnasium in comparison. Greater instrument/vocal separation in the 660, which pushed me to keep the 660.

I might be using improper terminology but I can understand “blob” and Sundaras were more blobby than the 660s in my experience. Couldn’t tell if you’ve used either, but just sharing my opinion.

Personal responsibility isn't allowed me to buy expensive headphones for no reason. As I wrote in the headline - this is end game, individual. Hope current headphone never won't be broken. Thanks for response.

I think it’s a perfect pairing to the Sundara. It adds that extra warmth to the clinical planar.

I do wonder myself though if something like the SMSL SU9 MQA will have more clarity and separation.

When I listen something else for example low end IEM's from collection, I always cry a lot how bad they sound compared Sundara. I would buy a second pair of headphones in order to cry at the bank account as well. Do I have to buy something equal Sundara or ought to get limited by cheap Senns? Any recommendations for IEMs if I already have TRN VX?

The Sundara isn't sibilance or harsh, I like more how it shines with SH8s. Honestly, I'd bought the warmth Zen Dac especially for the harsh BD 770 Pro before found out about Sundara)

Curiosity leads to audiophilia..

What's your taste in music?

The Zen Can's XBass is a little more subtle than the TrueBass button on the Zen DAC. I listen to Rock music mostly and I dig the punchy drums and thicker vocals, so I like to double it up! I do not think the Zen Stack sounds thin at all, very much the opposite actually. Which reviewer said that, do you remember? I pretty much never run the Zen Stack without some measure of extra bass, but it really is about four levels you can get with that setup. 1. No extra bass. 2. XBass Zen Can 3. TrueBass Zen DAC and 4. Both TrueBass and XBass together. I have different headphones that tolerate different levels of extra bass, so I like that Stack for all kinds of different uses and genres, and it's so easy to quickly reach over and dial it in when the tracks change and you want more or less without having to fiddle with an EQ. There's are some tracks with the Ananda that rumble so cleanly and deeply that I can feel them vibrate on my head! The track "2049" from the "Blade Runner 2049" soundtrack is my favorite deep rumble demo track. Give it a try with the Sundara and TrueBass activated. It's like a subwoofer! It's a fun way to watch movies, for sure. I do run the Zen Stack balanced as well. The Ananda doesn't need a lot of power, but it really opens up when you give it a lot.

Electronic, Hip Hop, Ambient, Female vocals and a bit of Ghostemane ;)

Actually I am happy, I WFH most of the time and instead of having a portable rig on the bus something else at my desk at work I have my real hifi and I sit between my speakers and work so its not just about the headphones 100% I enjoy them when the mood strikes and I rotate through what I have, I enjoy the differences. I really like my Audeze LCD-2C with Questyle CMA800 its a synergy thing (was my at work desk rig) , I enjoy my HD800S with my Manhattan II, I do a lot of Roon streaming and I get to listen to my turntable when I want, I mainly listen to my Custom IEM's and AK100 when I go in the office on occasion, I think the variety is refreshing, I enjoy my headphones for what they are in terms of signature if that makes sense, I could keep buying stuff forever, but I spent enough, my equipment sounds really good. Head-fi is a one hobby, for me. It was a gateway back into my love of stereo from my youth. I started with a Fiio X3 and IEMs and realized you could pretty much have hi-fi in your pocket with hi-res files. The equipment is fun, but it's about listening to the music and enjoying it.

u/blorg I agree with you 100000%. I own a Focal Clear OG, Arya Stealth, and I received the LCDX a couple days ago. When I first put them on I was so frustrated because it sounded so unbelievably muffled when compared to the Arya Stealth. I couldn't believe the hype for these things.

Then I added Oratory's EQ which raised the 4k frequency by a ton and it opened up the headphone a LOT. I think now it definitely compares to the Arya. I still think the Arya does everything the LCDX does and includes extra soundstage so I'm not sure I'll keep these. I'm still comparing the bass between the two so we'll see.

I had the Edition XS before the Arya and it felt cheap to me and also was so easy to fall off the head. Sound was great though.

Do you hear the difference between single end and balanced connection of that Stack? I suppose activating TrueBass and XBass together isn't a good idea because Zen Dac is designed to work in fixed mode when connected to AMP as Dac only. In that case the Zen Dac works as not the greatest pre-amp what distort the sound.

I kind of think iiWi Reviews says about laid back of midrange and relaxed sound overall. Equal opinion I heard from another guys. I am afraid the relaxed sound isn't good for the mostly neutral Sundara (and Ananda as a big brother).

I like "Blade Runner 2049" soundtrack and movie as well. Sundara does rumble too.

USB 3.0 already provides 5V. As I said already, tested them both on and off a brick, there's no difference that I can perceive be it sound quality or loudness.

The mix/master matters way more than resolution

I used to think I could tell the difference between 44.1 and 96 until I compared them from the same source

According to manual zen dac v2 gets < 1.5W via USB power and 5V via DC adapter. You're doing something wrong because I definitely hear different levels of loudness, it's about 30%. Keep in mind the Zen Dac does not always automatically switch to dc power but always sounds quieter when dc is plugged off.

Just listen to dirty buds for a week and you'll be fixed right up

If you're unsure then return them and try something else. Worst case you end up with something that sounds similar and will (probably) last longer.

Just because I don't hear a difference doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong. You may hear a difference which I don't refute. I'm just telling it as it is on my setup even with the official Ifi adapter and there's no difference whatsoever, nada. Maybe stop trying to invalidate others?

stock pads? i swapped mine for dekoni sheepskin and i was completely satisfied with the bass increase

Do they change sound signature except the bass line? Are sheepskin pads comfortable vs velour? I have some noname thick hybrid velour pads from Ali which are better quality, they increase bass and depth of soundstage, but sound a bit mumble and darker. I love Sundara's airiness.

I have the 2020 version in a balanced configuration. No issues with mine. It's just sounding better over time.

Well, then there ish no pleashing you.

1. not to my ears
2. i find them more comfortable personally because velour irritates my skin after long periods

The amazon starter pack

Yea idk what they mean the LCD-X stock tuning is absolutely muffled as fuck. But since they respond so well to EQ I don’t rlly hold that flaw against them. If ur spending that much ur already working on improving the margins of sound quality and EQ is just another part of that, not a major inconvenience at all

You are happy my dude. It is a very satisfying setup. Enjoy it fr!

Were you actually listening via a DAC that could process 96k?

Yeah thats 100% not true. Yes mix / master is very important, but if you compare the same mix / master via Spotify / high res / analogue then there is a SIGNIFICANT difference. Plus most stuff on Spotify is mastered to sound loud with zero dynamic range

"if you're compare the same mix/master" how do you know it's the same mix and master? Because It has the same title and album cover?

When I am listening to the "same mix" on Spotify and Amazon music, yes, I CAN hear a significant difference. But that has nothing to do with them being in 96.

In a PROPERLY set up double blind test I doubt you will actually be able to tell the difference.

It's a schiit modi. Measures VERY well and can support 96 so uhh.... Yeah

Sample rates definitely have their place in things like DSP and certain plugins though

lol I feel I ran into similar issue as you before. There is a difference between "sound quality" and "tonality". Sound quality I'm referring to technical stuff like separation, sound stage, detail......etc. But after all that there is still a tonality preference.

For example if you come from V-shaped headphone then chances neutral headphone will not satisfy your preference. Reddit has the tendency to suggest neutral headphone because it's the "audiophile" thing to do.

But often people forget people listen to what they like and some headphone will do better than others at different genre. So back to what you said, I don't think mid range is Sundara's strong suit, mid range master is like HD600 or HD650. You could.... as you said, fix it by running a tube amp. I'm currently using Lawton TH900 and running a tube amp to fix the mid range and recessed vocal LOL. Also as much as people say all dac sound the same, I find dacs have their sound too. Though you're already using Zen Dac V2 I think that one is already warm dac so you're probably ok. Maybe try a hybrid tube amp.

Don't feel afraid to try "fun" headphones if that's what you like. There are also high quality fun headphones out there. Though I don't listen to electronic or hip hop so I don't know what's the best headphone for those genre unfortunately. Maybeeeeee just maybe, see if you can find a TH-X00 Purpleheart for cheap to try.

Lol, find new music, not new gear. The only money I spend these days is my music subscription and CDs, mostly 2nd market. My way out was the Meze 109 Pro + OG Blessing 2, have other gear but those are my favourite all rounders.

I can't really put an accurate number on it - but you'll know after you hear a better setup and are able to compare for an extended time (one week+), and the devil is in the details. IMO, most of my entry-level/low-midrange IC-based DACs and amps (ie: Topping D30, Topping A90, Monolith '887) were bright/harsh/sharp in the treble while still missing details, had unnatural timbre, were lean in the bass, and had a shallow/flat soundstage with little depth.

Contrasted when listening to my midrange SMSL SU-9 DAC and mid-level and high-end discrete Class A or Class AB amps (ie: Emotiva BASX A-100, Schiit Magni 3+, Gustard H20) were: More detailed in the treble but not piercingly bright/harsh, more natural sounding voices and instruments with much better realism and trailing edges, fuller bass that's also much more textured (in an tactile, ASMR type of way), and soundstaging being not only wide and tall but also it's easy to hear a sense of depth/space.

I'm not going to say that these differences will always be night and day - that would be a lie - but these sometimes small-ish details can be the difference between just listening to some tunes vs an immersive and realistic listening experience. I tend to advocate for discrete Class A or Class AB amps over any of the IC/THX-based amps like the A90, THX-789, and the like for realistic timbre and less treble harshness (IDK about the SH9) - as the amp is more important than the DAC once you get past the entry-level DACs and into at least mid-range ones. Of course, all of this is IMO - and YMMV.......

You shouldn't hang the Sundaras on the leather strap, hang it under the metal headband instead

Nothing changes almost half of the year. I try to avoid scratches by touching metal. You're first here who speaks about hanging, appreciate you.

I suggest applying Oratory’s EQ settings for Sundara using something like Peace EQ program. Modify the bass to your liking and this will probably give you the maximum potential that can be extracted from the Sundara.

If you still yearn for more, then don’t bother with middling sidegrades like 6xx, Ananda, Elex, etc. Look into the $1200+ headphones like the HD800s, Arya, Clear… but don’t buy before you try.

I tried several EQ presets including Oratory’s EQ and found they didn't work for me. First of all this is uncomfortable for every day listening with different devices. IfI's True Bass button adds so much bass for music that needs it... though I prefer the stock sound of my gear.

Thank you for advice, I won't waste any money and time anymore on mid-range gear though the Ananda looks great.

You want more than the sundara because I felt the same way. Start looking at focal clear or focal elex. Terrific cans

Rather I'm looking suitable gear for Sundara and something fun to listen to on a daily basis to refresh my hearing. The Focal's are damn expensive I would prefer planars like LCD-X or Ananda

Elex is afforadble. But yes ananda should itch the craving

Chasing after the End Game is more fun than obtaining it imo. I guess it’s an alternate form of ‘Never meet your heroes’ lol

I suppose those who have achieved the end game are no longer interested in such discussions.