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gylez t1_j6kaf6x wrote

Reply to comment by Rabid_Kiwi in Walking parrots by FrankieGS

Agreed, but the silver lining is that we humans are amused by them and can keep them safely in our homes as pets - ensuring the survival of their species.

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wolff000 t1_j6kt6rt wrote

Not at all. I had a rescue parrot and you are doing them no favors. My dude was too old to get rehabbed for release so we just made his life as best as possible till he passed at 68. Parrots need constant companionship and stimulation. They get depressed, angry, and even psychotic living in captivity. Their lungs don't even function at 100% without flying most of the day. The same muscles that help them fly help them breathe. If you really love parrots leave them in the wild.

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gylez t1_j6lfcte wrote

I’ve had my rescue bird for 21 years. He’s fully flighted and in great physical and emotional health.

Rehabilitation is not an option for most parrots that have been pets their whole life. Someone has to take care of them.

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sfhitz t1_j6m1ui9 wrote

Can you keep them like pigeons where they're pretty much free but live on your roof? Not looking for an excuse to get any, just curious.

Edit: not actually sure that's how pigeons work either but I just watched a movie where it was.

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wolff000 t1_j6ms1j0 wrote

Technically, yes if you live in an area that has the right weather you technically could keep them that way.

However pigeons are domesticated. And happily live in a coop. Most parrots are not going to live in something like that. Instinct will drive them to go make a nest. You would have a few that hang around for food but most would just fly off at some point.

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Gently_Rough_ t1_j6mh51g wrote

Yes, but just like any species they are at risk of becoming invasive. Israel has a major issue with aggressive Drara parrots who were let loose and multiplied and have driven out many local bird varieties in the past 30 years or so. Invasive species are no joke.

That said you don’t need an excuse for having a bird much like you wouldn’t need one for having a dog or a cat. Parrots love their family. They are warm and affectionate pets and just as you wouldn’t lock a dog in a cage for life, you shouldn’t do this to a bird.

My parrot was my closest companion growing up and his cage was only rarely closed. He preferred staying there by choice and we would often go on trips together. When I got hospitalized he got depressed and was thrilled and happy when we were reunited. Today I have a rabbit at home that’s also free and is living his best life at 11 years old.

The important bit is to invest in the relationship as much as you would with a dog or another family member depending on you, and to not get a pet blindly without learning a lot about them and meeting some to understand what they’re like.

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wolff000 t1_j6mrbcr wrote

Sorry no. Stop trying to make wild animals pets. They are not domesticated and never will be. You can literally never get the animal the exercise it needs. Wild parrots fly hundreds of miles a day and live in colonies of hundreds if not thousands of other parrots. How do you think you can possibly recreate any of that in your house? You claim to love a wild animal then keep it in captivity. Your arguments are the exact ones used to justify keeping chimps and tigers as pets. These animals will always be better off outside not in your house.

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Gently_Rough_ t1_j6o0ckk wrote

Mine was outside whenever he wanted. He’d spent a few hours every day outside. All living things have needs, and tigers’ needs are very, very different from a parrot’s.

Exercise or not, birds that are well cared for can be more challenged intellectually, can be entertained and happy, have relationships that are meaningful, and be much healthier than their wild cousins.

In the end if you believe your border collie is getting as much exercise as he would in the wild you’re delusional, but quality of life isn’t just about exercise.

Wild animals require special care, many of them definitely cannot be cared for in urban environments. Parrots, who actually thrive in urban environments, can without a doubt be cared for when born and raised with care.

In the end all animals are wild to a degree, whether it’s your goldfish, snake, iguana, parrot, hedgehog, rat, cat or dog. To think as a human you can put a line and say “this is wild” and “this is pet” is idiotic. All are wild. All have needs. All pets are bound by humans. In some cases we can provide a good life for them. In some, better. Take a domesticated pig and let them roam for a year and see how “domesticated” they are.

Be kind to animals, as you are one too.

Not that it matters, my parrot was a rescue as is my rabbit. I am very much against those who capture wild birds for profit or those who support them.

People don’t seem to mind the front page and upvote the next gif of that guy playing with his duck as if that’s any different. Y’all just brand yourselves and hold double standards for the same topics.

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invisible-bug t1_j6l9hpo wrote

This comment really makes me think that you have no experience with birds like these. Most of them self harm when kept in captivity. They get bored and codependent and jealous.

It's not all bad. They cuddle. They sing with you. They're funny. They play. But they're very hard to keep happy. It's unethical to keep them as a pet unless you properly know what you're doing and have some serious time and space to provide everything they need.

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gylez t1_j6lf1vy wrote

Funny how you got all that from my obvious and true statement.

My parrot has been with me for 21 years. He’s never harmed himself and is a quite happy and healthy bird. He’s fully flighted, has a cage but is never closed in; he prefers his java wood tree stand. He has free roam of our whole house with a perch in every room.

Like it or not, people will continue to breed and keep these creatures as pets. I would never support unethical trade, nor seek out a bird from a breeder. All the parrots I’ve cared for over the years have been rescues.

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mnlxyz t1_j6m8w1g wrote

Classic Reddit moment when they think they know your situation better than you do

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invisible-bug t1_j6lgppz wrote

>safely in our homes as pets

That's what I take issue with. It's not true. They're often not safe because people don't understand that smart birds make bad pets.

Nothing you said, referencing YOUR good experience with YOUR well adjusted parrot, makes my statements untrue. They're very difficult to care for. They need constant stimulation that most people can't provide. They need to be taught boundaries that most pets don't really require. They hold grudges against people and can attack them - attacks which can easily require a trip to the ER. Sometimes they become so possessive of a person that they attack anyone who comes near or visits. Children and pets can be included.

I also fail to see how people keeping them as pets helps their population in the wild in any way.

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gylez t1_j6lian6 wrote

Safely for the humans

And that’s because I never said anything about helping their population in the wild? I said, “ensuring their survival as a species.”

silver lining: A hopeful or comforting prospect in the midst of difficulty. - aka - my whole statement was about finding a positive in an unfortunate situation.

Their numbers, like all creatures we use for entertainment/agriculture, are much higher than nature would ever allow them to reach w/o our interference. Thus my jokingly insouciant silver lining.

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throwawaymisfortune t1_j6kzs6g wrote

Curious, did you enjoy being locked up in your house during the covid year? It's the same for these birds.

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Alessiya t1_j6l91a5 wrote

Every day I have to go to work I cry a little bit on the inside. Working from home would have been god send to me.

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throwawaymisfortune t1_j6lamxj wrote

Feel you, luckily my work allows me to work from home. But voluntarily staying at home and to stay locked up all the time are different.

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Alessiya t1_j6ldaha wrote

True. Probably not the best idea to ask reddit cause I think a lot of us would choose to stay indoors.

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hurtsdonut_ t1_j6lin9c wrote

I was never locked in my house. I went fishing, hiking, and foraging the whole time. I did think it was stupid that Illinois shut down their state parks for a while.

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milenyo t1_j6lracv wrote

Well, my introverted friends did enjoy, most of the time.

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Rabid_Kiwi t1_j6keksu wrote

No fam you can’t. That’s the point. Domesticated parrots are not like a cat or a dog. Even the ones born in captivity exhibit a clear difference in intelligence and behavior. They evolved not only physically, but socially, and physiology. They need the wild and they need a flock. You can never reintroduce a parrot after it has been domesticated. This is because the parrot life bonds emotionally with its owner, and thinks it’s flock is humans. It would be the same as Aliens abducting you as a small child, and raising you in isolation of other humans. So no. Most if not all of the ones you see in zoos and the like are rescues. Ask any educated avian biologist or Veterinarian and they will say the same. They can not proliferate in captivity with out serous issues for their long term survival. There are a few trying to reintroduce with intermediate success, but you have to start when they are younger. Once they completely mature the pattern is set.

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rockylizard t1_j6kmofh wrote

without captive breeding, the Spix's Macaw (just as one example) would be extinct.

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Rabid_Kiwi t1_j6koq7q wrote

Yes that is why buying one is against most international laws, and it is heavily restricted to research and conversation. But if ever able to be released it will never be the real Spix. It’s the same difference between a dog and a wolf. By breading them in captivity we fundamentally change them. Different genes are passed on when organisms are in different environments. So they will evolve to something else. The real Spix died off a few decades ago from poaching for pets, and habitat destruction. Now we keep a few alive to sate a guilty conscience. But screw it fam, y’all don’t want to hear it so I’m just going to bounce. Love ya fam.

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SoSorryItsTheMoops t1_j6l69yf wrote

The dog/wolf comparison isn’t quite right. Dogs were domesticated over tens of thousands of years via selective breeding for traits that suited a peridomestic lifestyle. The Spix macaws that were reintroduced are the progeny of a handful of adults who’ve been in captivity for less than a generation, some of whom were likely wild-caught themselves. Is that a genetic bottleneck? Yes. Is it selection for pet traits? Not remotely. Plus, macaws regularly form mixed-species flocks, so their “culture” is perhaps not irretrievably lost if there are Illiger’s macaws in the area.

Edit: a word

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DirtyProtest t1_j6lgxey wrote

He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

I 100% agree the wild bird trade is abhorrent and is driven by people buying these birds. Captive bred birds... well its all down to the owner.

I have a grey and she is a wonderfully happy bird. Can be N absolute dick when she wants but most parrots can.

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CianuroConLove t1_j6kqk2d wrote

You know, that same argument can somehow be used for racism. Some humans in x part of the world are less because their genes are not as original or pure because they are more mixed or whatever…

For me, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s a damn duck.

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Rabid_Kiwi t1_j6ksjyi wrote

Really? Racism huh? So that’s how you silent your opponents. By implying they haters. That’s messed up fam. Also last I checked no one is killing off every human except the ones in jail… also in order for you to think that you have to think that there are different species of humans as well. Or did you not think about what you were saying? Just looking to bash on someone who has a different opinion than you do. Well fam no, no reasonable educated adult is going to read it and think that. Only some one immature and only looking to cause pain, because someone dared to question their subjective value on life.

Grow up fam. Love ya.

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CianuroConLove t1_j6kst88 wrote

I don’t think you are my opponent or a hater.

It was just an observation.

I mean a lot of animals kill their own species and they kill other animals.. you arguments are kinda dumb and empty lol

Edit to say: dolphins rape each other, so that means it’s ok to rape? A lot of animals kill each other and younglings or abandon their offspring… so if they do it it’s ok for humans to do it?

I’m just trying to get you to understand that your analogies as you are presenting them, don’t work. And if a spix is still alive and we can someday release it back into the wild, that’s a win.

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Rabid_Kiwi t1_j6kukbq wrote

Bull shit. You know what you were implying. Also applying human ethics to animals behaviors is how the world got this fucked up to start with. Some mother spiders get eaten by their young. Nature is brutal fam, why these animals evolved the way they did. We aren’t the judges of their societies or behaviors. You know what, fuck it fam. You have a good life. I’m done with your petty nonsense.

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CianuroConLove t1_j6kvgio wrote

I seriously don’t know what you think I was implying more than what I’m writing lol, bit paranoid eh?

Sure I’m the one speaking nonsense “fam”

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Flecca t1_j6kwhbe wrote

Its a damn shame yall are being downvoted. People care more about owning other living beings than those living beings well being. Fucking disgusting

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LongBongJohnSilver t1_j6leupq wrote

I've helped breed birds most of my life, and I've concluded they aren't very good pets. They develop romantic bonds to people that can't (shouldn't) come to fruition. It's one thing to keep an aviary, but all these people doing what amounts to foreplay with them isn't what's best.

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MisogynyisaDisease t1_j6n4e07 wrote

Thank you for being sane about this.

I've always wanted an African Grey, but I won't do it until I'm in a position to give a rescue the most time and best exercise and living environment I can.

I'll stick with dogs, who are perfectly happy to just snuggle and go on runs/hikes and chew the countless rawhides I've gifted them.

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