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2TauntU t1_jdhvglj wrote

Reply to comment by orangutan9 in Zoomied her outfit off by lnfinity

You can never tell the reddit that is going to show up. The bacon jokes are funny crowd or the pigs are smarter than the dogs crowd.

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Hungry_Bass_Muncher t1_jdiepcp wrote

One if them is correct and the other one is heartless animal abuse disguised in a joke.

Imagine someone making jokes about killing dogs for pleasure aka "tasty food". Everyone on Reddit would hate that and shame the jokers for not having taste or a working sense of humor.

Reddit universally condemns animal abuse news/stories and some even go so far to demand the perpetators to receive extreme vigilantism because the laws are not harsh enough. And none of them ever are "vegans" or anything close to it. Animal rights for me and not for thee.

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twelveomaha t1_jdiqies wrote

we domesticated dogs to be friends.

we domesticated pigs to be tasty food.

pigs are intelligent and can also be friend.

this does not make them less tasty.

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Hungry_Bass_Muncher t1_jdiqudm wrote

Yeah and just because sex is fun does not mean rape is morally justified. Try a better argument, maybe even apply critical thinking and logic next time.

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdivrl2 wrote

if you want people to see your side of a disagreement, maybe dont call them a rapist.

Having strong opinions and being emotional is understandable.

Insulting people who disagree with you is not going to change their mind, its just gonna make them think you're an asshole.

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BargainBarnacles t1_jdj6xhy wrote

Will animal abuser do? You don't cut their throat, but you pay to have it done.

That label stick?

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdjfhfj wrote

Im not telling you what to do, you have the liberty to live your life the way you see fit.

Im just saying that IF YOU WANT people to listen to you, dont call them names like "rapist" or "abuser".

this will only make your audience even less likely to pay your arguments any attention

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BargainBarnacles t1_jdlodtp wrote

My argument is 'stop killing animals who don't need to be killed' - that I have to do so makes YOU look bad, not me...

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdm81s7 wrote

i dont know if youre doing this on purpose but if you stop arguing for 5 fucking seconds and listen to me, im trying to help you

If you want people to join your side and go vegan, you gotta stop with the aggression and name calling and general assholeness

because the only thing you're doing right now is driving folks away.

Do you want people to go vegan? if so, then the way you're going about this is detrimental to your own interests.

it makes no sense

imagine i was trying to convince you to eat fish and my only argument involves calling you a rapist or a murderer

youd be like "wow fuck that guy, fish eaters are dicks"

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BargainBarnacles t1_jdmtl7n wrote

Nope. It's an objective fact what I have said. Deal with it. Going 'I'm going to eat MORE meat to spite you' is nothing more than childish ego. I have no obligation to play nice with you.

We play nice, it doesn't work. We play hard - it doesn't work - so fuck it.

Edit: non vegan telling me how to convert meat eaters while not being vegan - makes sense.

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdo0c4y wrote

youve gotta pick a lane eventually my friend

you either want to ostracize people or you want them to join you, but you cant have it bith ways.

hope you figure it out soon

i wont be responding to any further messages from you because im afraid my words are falling on deaf ears.

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Hungry_Bass_Muncher t1_jdiwgkx wrote

Maybe invest in your reading comprehension. It's called a comparison. When I compare apples to oranges, I don't call you an orange.

And I could not care less how you think "mind changing" works. If it did work, you would not even write me a reply lmao. Planting a seed of doubt to carnists is enough for me. How do you think I moved from pro-animal-abuse stance to being disgusted by it?

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdjh9gs wrote

my reply was intended to change YOUR mind about how to talk to people, it wasnt a rebuttal of your core argument that eating animals is wrong.

actually, i havent even shared my own belief on the matter at all. for all you know at this point, i could be a diehard vegan.

my point was that alienation, insults, aggression and violence towards any demographic is going to breed hate instead of understanding.

I couldn't care less about whether or not you actually convince anyone to become a vegan, i simply was trying to give you advice on how to share your opinions in a way that people will be receptive to.

I see the same things all the time with every other current social hot topic. Prolifers calling Pro choice people monsters. Pro choice calling pro life bigots. Republicans calling dems snowflakes. dems calling republicans racists.

im not here to argue the actual point you want to make, im here to tell you that your method has room for improvement.

again, you dont have to listen to me at all.

but if you DONT WANT people to become vegan, youre on the right track. call people names and insult them and you can be sure theyll continue to reject your beliefs.

but its beginning to seem as though you dont actually care about the topic at hand and are simply looking for confrontation for confrontation's sake. Which is not helpful and not something id like to take part in.

And although i sincerely hope you see at least a little truth in my words, it is for the above reason that i wont be responding to any additional comments you make in this thread.

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twelveomaha t1_jdmvabq wrote

Its the nature of reality, the bigger things eat the smaller things, and its true not just for animals.

If you don't want to participate in that, that's okay.

I was only making a statement and trying to talk with you.

Instead, you try to insult my intelligence.

This is why no one likes vegans.

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Hungry_Bass_Muncher t1_jdn740p wrote

Lol not a vegan you insecure carnist. There is a reason no one respects the arguments you carnists make, because they are incredibly naive and narcissistic.

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twelveomaha t1_jdn9xqb wrote

you know what? you're right. I'm gonna stop contributing to the rape and murder of all animals now.

have a great day!

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Screamin_Seaman t1_jdizrvg wrote

On the contrary, OP's argument is presented quite logically. One's disagreement with the position does not render the argument illogical.

> Try a better argument

Take note: yours is a straw man.

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piclemaniscool t1_jdikvia wrote

It's very simple. We think of dogs as cute and pigs/cows as ugly. That's all there is to it. You know how textbook illustrations make animals look grim and sterile? That's how most American children growing up before the internet saw cows because they were many miles away from the nearest farm. It's only recently with everyone having a video camera in their pocket are we able to see that cows IRL can be just as adorable.

Pigs do get uglier as they age tho so it's harder to PR. Any time I see pigs on Reddit outside of animal sanctuary subs, they are always babies.

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdiwgeu wrote

thats not it at all.

Cows and Pigs are livestock because they turn low-value, low calorie, low nutrient organic mass into high-calorie, high nutrient mass.

we cannot digest grass, but cows can. We noticed that a long, long time ago and realized we could feed all that useless grass to cows and get useful meat out of it.

Pigs are valued because they can digest basically anything and turn it into nutrient dense meat, which was (at the time) more valuable than the companionship they can offer.

Fast forward 10,000 to 11,000 years and we have massive billion dollar industries dedicated to using these animals for their "useless biomass into useful biomass" traits.

asking us to abandon that industry now is a silly proposition because the amount of effort, money, time, and logistics involved far outweigh the small benefit of making vegans happy.

tldr: we eat pigs and love dogs in the modern world because the ancient world did it for so long that its unfeasible to stop at this point.

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DinosRoar t1_jdj83ey wrote

Sounds like an excuse for slavery lol

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Prince_Edward_IV t1_jdjimax wrote

im not sure people were that concerned with slavery in 8500 BC, they were more concerned with not starving to death.

dont misunderstand me, with current technology we absolutely do NOT need to consume animal flesh.

we could get by with vitamin fortified vegatables and plants. Its not hard at all to synthesize and add iron, protein, b12 etc to plant based foods.

my explanation of how we got here is not an excuse for the current industrial farming as a whole.

i eat a diet that includes meat. im not a vegan at all.

but i want you to understand that i do agree that animals should be treated better.

the place where we disagree is in weighing the cost and the extent to which we treat them better. In a perfect world, we would eat whatever we want and we could do it ethically. But we dont live in a perfect world and in this world we need concrete, financially feasable plans for progress to be made.

And we BOTH likely know that the wealthy elite run the entire country and in order to change anything we have to either convince massive corporations to spend tons of money on something or convince the government to force them to do so.

You calling normal, employed, doing-their-best-to-get-by people slavers on the internet is not helpful at all and will simply make folks not wanna listen to you.

so you have to ask yourself:

do you care more about standing your moral ground on the internet even at the cost of literally driving people away from the changes you claim you want?

or do you care about actually trying to transition the world to a plant based diet?

because if you actually cared about what you claim to care about, you wouldnt be here ACTIVELY working against your own best interests, youd be trying to get people on your side.

You know how theres those churches that everyone hates and they claim to love jesus but then shit on other people all the time and call them horrible things and every atheist in the country goes "wow Christians are kinda bad people like statistically just bad"

well you just did that exact same thing.

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HighNoon1200 t1_jdignl2 wrote

So at the end of this pigs life you’re just going to waste it an bury it? Both can be true, that it’s an intelligent pet you should take care of and that one day it’ll be bacon.

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calgil t1_jdinzw9 wrote

Dude people don't eat animals that die of old age. You really think people say 'oh my beloved Bessie has had a good long life, let's carve her up.' The meat would be awful and not worth it anyway.

Don't pretend that meat eating is preventing waste because it literally doesn't work that way. Animals are eaten in their prime or younger. Nobody even commercially eats adult sheep because mutton is tough and awful.

You either eat them when they still have a long life ahead of them or you don't eat them at all.

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Wojtuma t1_jdihp60 wrote

I'm gonna eat twice as many dogs, just so you don't make any difference.

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BruceIsLoose t1_jdimeh3 wrote

It is why I ate my pet dog after he died. Can't let that pug bacon go to waste.

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Hungry_Bass_Muncher t1_jdigxah wrote

So when you see someone walk their dog outside will you shout: "You better eat that dog and turn it in to mittens when it dies or it's wasting resources!"

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HighNoon1200 t1_jdihlm7 wrote

No because that’s not the argument here and we treat dogs differently. And you know that. Don’t go moving the goalposts.

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paulfunyan t1_jdiky2v wrote

I mean, I kind of understand what you're trying to say... but you're looking at it entirely in a vacuum.

There are plenty of things that are wrong with factory farming even if you hold the view that it's not animal abuse.

Having pet pigs and not eating them is far less wasteful than the factory farming process. Feel free to look up the sheer amount of resources pumped into agriculture, and then feel free to look up food waste per capita.

We heavily overproduce and it isn't even close.

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tehpenguins t1_jditsln wrote

We should outlaw farming, it kills and displaces billions of insects and microorganisms, they are also abused animals.

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