Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

pseudopad t1_j6iv0yh wrote

Out of 24000 calls. So 0.4% of all calls.

Doesn't seem like a huge deal.

631

nwbeng t1_j6j19pd wrote

I was skiing this weekend and got a call from 911 in the lift line after a run asking if I was OK. I didn’t even know this was a thing on my phone. She said it happens all the time.

153

zebrahdh t1_j6j30j1 wrote

And some of those calls save peoples lives… the others just inconvenienced emergency services with an unnecessary call. Like a baby hitting the wrong buttons on a locked smart phone.

−8

MyNameIsRay t1_j6j3p07 wrote

Well, yea, frame it that way and it does seem small.

Frame it against total false calls and market share, and it looks like a much bigger issue.

Total false calls was 919, so this feature on the iPhone14 accounts for nearly 15% of them. A 15% growth in false calls due to a phone feature is noteworthy.

iPhone14 is pretty new and only has about 1% of the total mobile market. Assuming this issue is constant and the 14 gains the same share as predecessors, this might actually become the majority of false calls.

40

AllGasNoBrakes_ t1_j6japyr wrote

I’m sure the good outweighs the bad… prob more accidental lock button 911 calls than anything

467

bradland t1_j6jgeoi wrote

Replying to you because this seems like a good injection point, but these comments aren't necessarily meant as a rebuttal to anything you said :)

There's definitely a larger scope to assess here, but it extends even beyond a basic analysis of call volume. The analysis of systems designed to make automated calls to emergency services not only requires assessment of false-report calls, but also an analysis of the positive-report calls, as well as outcomes.

Ultimately, the objective is to save lives. A small-to-moderate increase in false-report calls is acceptable if there is a significant increase in the number of positive-report calls that wouldn't have otherwise been made in time. That analysis is way more complicated than simply looking at call volume though. You need to know:

  • How many false report calls were placed.
  • How many positive-report calls were placed.
  • The percentage of the positive-report calls that were duplicates.
  • The temporal proximity of the duplicative calls.
  • The ultimate outcome of the positive-report calls.

Using this data (and likely more), you'd want to build a complete picture of the correlation between automated reports and the desired outcome: lives saved in cases where other options would have failed. For example, consider two scenarios:

Your tire blows while driving home from your shift that ended at 2am and you veer into a ditch. You're knocked out on impact, but your iPhone calls 911 and emergency services can tell where you are from the GPS coordinates transmitted by your phone. They arrive and find you badly injured, but are ultimately able to save your life.

Here, the automated call to 911 was critical, and because it was so late, and because you were in a ditch out of sight, the automated call clearly saved your life.

You are texting while driving and rear-end a car that has come to a stop in front of you. Your phone goes flying out of your hand as the airbag deploys and is out of reach. The automated call is made to 911, but four other people who saw the accident have also called in within 60 seconds of seeing the accident.

Here, the automated call was superfluous. There's no way for the device to know, but it results in an extra call to 911 that was unecessary.

There will always be a cost associated with emergency response. It will also be impossible to optimize any automated system to achieve a 0% false-report rate, but that's not a license to be cavalier with the approach taken.

The iPhone isn't the only device designed to make automated calls to emergency services. For example, seniors who are at risk for falls will often buy a device with a remote that they wear around their neck or on their wrist that will call emergency services when a button is pressed.

These systems don't call 911 directly though. Instead, they call a call center. The call center agent answers and inquires about the individual's status. If the person is unable to respond, the agent initiates the pass through call to 911. If the person is able to respond, they assess whether emergency services are needed.

The systems work this way because 911 operators around the world are often short-staffed and cannot handle a deluge of false-report calls. As the number of iPhones in use grows, Apple will be forced to make closer evaluations of the usage data to determine what changes are required. I'd be surprised if this isn't a net positive for public safety though. It's just going to require some tweaks.

17

garry4321 t1_j6jhbth wrote

I'll bash Apple on all kinds of stuff (anti-competition, breaking older phones intentionally using software, gouging customers, etc.).

A product making false calls that need a simple "it was a mistake" discussion for a feature that has saved MANY lives, is not something bashable.

57

ProbablyMyRealName t1_j6jnojp wrote

Happened to my son while skiing. He didn’t even crash. He skied (aggressively) from a slope onto a flat traverse and his phone started going nuts. 911 called him and asked if he was in an accident, or was being held against his will. He turned off crash detection on the next lift ride.

68

King_Kowell t1_j6jo2dp wrote

This exact thing happened to me! Took a spill getting off the lift thanks to a beginner friend, got up went down the run. On the lift back up I check my phone and it’s 911 calling. Thought I was in trouble!

15

alstergee t1_j6jqhkj wrote

Can you imagine having yourself a wank and the cops pull up cause your phones a snitch hahaha

6

cinnayum t1_j6jtrw9 wrote

It almost happened to me after a roller coaster ride at islands of adventure in Orlando! I got of the hagrid motorbike adventure ride and my watch was calling 911! I stopped it in time before it actually went though thankfully. My watch through I was in an accident because that ride has a drop track where it free falls 17 feet. I turned off crash detection right away after that.

7

PerpetualFarter t1_j6jvyg7 wrote

While that feature seems like a good idea ( and I’m sure it has saved some people due to legitimate calls) as a 911 dispatcher I can tell you between this feature, iPhone emergency sos calls and pocket dials, it can be a MAJOR PITA.

−4

uptownmike429 t1_j6kcznp wrote

Not picking on anything Apple. I just dealt with my Samsung watch calling my Best Friend due to fall detection. BUT...BUT, the watch was sitting on the counter next to the sink. Didn't move. No vibrations in the house.

23

duramus t1_j6kdx3h wrote

Think about how much salary cost Apple must have wasted for the marketing and r&d team to come up with such a ridiculous and basically useless feature.

−11

mrbrettw t1_j6kfn6r wrote

Happened to me when I was at Knotts Berry Farm on multiple rollercoasters. Had to turn off my phone. Hahaha.

2

ripperdoc23 t1_j6kh5da wrote

Gotta suck to live in a state where it’s illegal. It’s so normalized in CA now, I don’t smoke but I don’t think about it when I smell it or see people smoking or whatever. Lots of my elderly moms friends trying it out for pain relief, relaxation etc. Almost overnight it just became totally normal.

102

murrtrip t1_j6ki4bk wrote

Then what were they from? Regular calls? No. That would be a false call.

So, it's from legitimate circumstances where the phone detects a crash and calls emergency services. Of 24,000 calls, 100 were not warranted. Pretty darn good.

−28

toppertd t1_j6kibub wrote

Are shit pretty hard on the skis this weekend. Watch tried to call the ambulance. I think it did what it was supposed to

8

NeverLookBothWays t1_j6kii0c wrote

The United States, and the severity is dependent on state and local agency. You will get fines for false alarms in many cases…so my question is, who would be ultimately liable?

(It’s a court based question so more rhetorical here)

(Edit: for those downvoting, take a look at Port St. Lucie who has introduced fines for repeated MISTAKE calls. And this was before the problem of SOS mode which has increased the strain of mistake calls)

−4

PivotalPosture t1_j6kinn6 wrote

Nothing comes out perfect. People just like to shit on Apple. They’ll get it right, even though it already is

17

Mattidh1 t1_j6kk9lf wrote

Statistics can be framed in many different way, some misleading - which this is.

Considering its 24k calls, 134 were false. We don’t know the amount caused by the iPhone, both real and false. The data in the article really cannot be used for anything.

The only remotely useful thing is the statement by the firefighter “a firefighter said, "we can’t ask users to turn it off,” as it is beneficial in actual serious emergencies.” And a reported influx in false emergency calls from iPhone 14.

It’s scuffed that OP’s title is a big bait.

3

Nickjet45 t1_j6kme3o wrote

You get fines for intentional false calls.

There’s a difference between prank calling 911, and calling 911 because you misunderstood the severity of a situation. Now let the latter happen multiple times, they may fine you.

2

NeverLookBothWays t1_j6kn970 wrote

(Edit: Not sure why this is being downvoted, accidental 911 calls have been enough of a strain that some cities have introduced fines for repeat offenders. SOS has increased these incidents even further.)

Intentional as well as repeated "mistake" calls.

There's a threshold for when it becomes problematic for emergency responders, so don't doubt that action will be taken at some point on these. (take a look at Port St. Lucie as an example of this). But this also makes me think the FCC might go after Apple on this one when it does get to that point.

−2

Uleoja t1_j6kpdcr wrote

I had it trigger by tossing the phone from one hand to the other.

0

YnotBbrave t1_j6kr3u7 wrote

so out of the 113 calls how many times were the 911 unable to call back, have the guy pick up and phone and say "no, I'm ok"? because 15% extra overhead of a phone call per real 911 call isn't much, even before the apple fix. If that doesn't work, and police is sent... that's much more expensive

1

Smildo_Dasher t1_j6kt8at wrote

Same thing happened in Canada

Dozens of weed stores sprang up overnight in pretty much every single city across the country

Large grocery chains opened their own to complement their liquor stores

it's wild walking into a store with regular ass lookin grocery store employees asking how you'd like to get ripped today

59

Sevaaas1 t1_j6kzsfd wrote

One time my phone screen kinda broke, the screen lost a small chunk of the display in the top, and the connector got kind of disconnected so i had to press a specific part of the phone to make the display work, i was in the sofa watching tv when i started to press the power button repeatedly, i forgot it would call the emergency line ( i have adhd and i constantly press buttons ) when the fucking siren started the countdown and the display wasnt turning on anymore, i was freaking out so much trying to explain the situation to the disparcher, it happened again 3 hours later because the touch screen was actually working but not the display so i butt called them…

3

miraculum_one t1_j6l1568 wrote

Not just fees. If there is a real emergency when one first responder is responding to a fake one, someone might not get saved. It seems that false alarms are somewhat common in a concentrated area (ski resorts) so this is not implausible.

1

ProbablyMyRealName t1_j6l47sr wrote

I’ve had him for a while now, so it’s sunk in at this point. I will say though that it is SO MUCH FUN! We ski together around 30 days per season, and I’m one of his mountain bike coaches (he races XC and Enduro) so we mountain bike around 100 days per year. Having kids that are cool is rad.

27

cazzzzo t1_j6l6mwq wrote

Lol I triggered it taking a spill in snowboarding in some powdery woods. Super useful if I had needed rescue but it took me a second before I frantically pulled my gear off to cancel it

1

rebeccamb t1_j6la7y7 wrote

I have a medical card now (I didn’t when the cops were accidentally called) and the dispensary told me it’s still illegal for me to make edibles at home with product I got legally. I’m just happy I don’t have to drive 4 hours to get stuff anymore

A few weeks ago I accidentally told a cop that I make edibles. I didn’t know she was a cop but thankfully I don’t think they give a shit enough to make a fuss.

7

MamaMeRobeUnCastillo t1_j6lnlc9 wrote

It happened to me twice, so kinda doubt that number. Happened once on my Xiaomi too so

0

callenlive26 t1_j6lxl6m wrote

Alert received. Platinum member status confirmed. Trauma team in route.

1

bnetimeslovesreddit t1_j6lzoe2 wrote

Mine triggers when braking quickly and really dumb feature. It should also listen to auditable sounds to verify it and give 60 second countdown when nobody answer the reject help callout

−1

maximumlight1 t1_j6m06n5 wrote

This has definitely been an issue for me. My phone has now called 911 twice in the last 8 times I’ve been skiing.

0

nugbert_nevins t1_j6m151k wrote

It’s probably only illegal to make edibles at scale/for sale. No chance you will ever face any charges for making edibles in your own home, unless you’re being raided and they stack that onto other more substantial charges.

4

Takeoded t1_j6m6wa3 wrote

>There were 23,919 emergency calls received between December 16, 2022, and January 23, 2023, at the Fire Department of Kita-Alps Nagano, of which 134 were false.

so 99.44% success rate? sounds really good to me

7

Sp3llbind3r t1_j6mbdbk wrote

I think the point you are missing is that it‘s not just the call center.

If an ambulance or a fire brigade goes out, those are occupied until they found out it was a false call. And that is way worse, because they will not be at an other place where they would be needed, someone could die because of that.

2

MaxiltonHamstappen t1_j6mhpkl wrote

Colleague of mine years ago did this while he was on stage photographing USC's graduation. Someone kept calling him and he kept silencing the phone in his pocket since he couldn't look at it and didn't realize it called 911. Little awkward

3

MarbylZino t1_j6mhvtb wrote

Okay, hear me out. Yesterday while on my journey to my school I had a pretty bad car accident. I recently bought a new Apple Watch SE. And after the car accident (fortunately the seat belts saved me) I was able to get out of the car. I noticed the watch ringing and indeed it was notifying me about the crash I just had. I canceled the SOS call though cuz I was able to do that myself. But yeah, I think this feature might be useful.

2

latortillablanca t1_j6mioam wrote

Not sure that variable is that wild to me tbh! That’s precisely what liquor stores are like. Hell those enormous wine stores got fuckin half speed somoliers pushing adult wares down yer gullet.

At the same time regular ass grocery store attendants aren’t asking you how you’d like anything, to busy hating their fookin life

−1

advamputee t1_j6mnksc wrote

I work dispatch at a ski resort. I probably get 3-4 calls a day from our state dispatch — “Hi this is Vermont 911 agent 1234, we’ve received another crash detection from an iPhone with no answer.”

We’ve stopped sending patrol for crash detection. Half the time the coordinates they give us are way off. I’ll write down the callback number and log the call, but if someone’s actually hurt it’ll get called in.

So far, I’ve only had one crash detection call where someone was actually hurt, and the secondary line started ringing with someone calling in for the same person while I was still on the line with 911.

31

givemoreHavemore t1_j6mnyym wrote

A .005% failure rate is astonishing. The headline is not the story. The real story is that over 24,000 people were saved.

1

MadWorldEater6969 t1_j6mo5zm wrote

I’m sure with time this will work itself out and get better. Doubt it’ll ever be perfect, but the false calls will happen less and less

1

CoBullet t1_j6mqqsu wrote

No, a 99.44% valid calls rate to the Fire Department of Kita-Alps via any means.

The article isn't even saying 134 of these calls are from the iPhone, just that they received 134 false calls and that the iPhone makes up "most" of them.

This article is clickbait junk without any actual details about the crash detection failing.

13

vectoralgebraist t1_j6mvkbx wrote

A hundred false positivies out of 24 thousand calls is impressively little, but still this is one hundred instances of emergency responders being potentially not able to respond to actual emergency

1

bleucheeez t1_j6n2z93 wrote

Partly true. But the criticism so far is fair and all factual.

Apple seemingly didn't collect sufficient test data for these very common scenarios. The rollout was premature. And as typical for Apple, they didn't ask for anyone else's buy-in before including the feature. This news article indicates multiple counties with 15-20 false calls a day due to iPhone crash detection, and zero actual emergencies. Getting a call from emergency services while I'm bombing a run or slaying pow will definitely kill my fun. Missing that call costs precious emergency resources for the local responders.

There should be geographic blackout areas. Or allow local emergency services to ask Apple to disable crash detection in an area. Or send push notification asking the user whether they would like to disable.

I had an iPhone SE (2nd gen) for a while. Even on that thing, several times when the phone would lag or freeze, I ended up calling emergency services. They made a poor design choice on their GUI for that too.

1

Drachefly t1_j6n3mw6 wrote

Seems like a good way to handle this would be to only trigger if it goes from violent motion to nearly totally still.

If you're still moving, figure that you're fine. That would get rid of roller coasters, as after all that violent motion, you get up and walk way from it. Similarly with skiing. You reach the bottom and glide to a halt, then begin walking around.

3

FeralCJ7 t1_j6n6i8g wrote

Eh, I was a cop for over a decade. The number of pocket dial 911 calls we got is crazy. Unbelievable.

But, it's not really costing money imo. I mean, the dispatchers are paid no matter what, so are the police. I was already out driving around anyway, so if I'm driving here or there it doesn't matter, it's costing tax dollars.

And, every department I worked at a 911 unknown, or 911 hangup, was always a lower priority than a known issue. So if we got dispatched to an alarm or a crash we always for those first then the unknown calls. So it didn't really take away from emergency responses elsewhere.

3

rakehellion t1_j6nat31 wrote

911 gets accidental calls all the time. Just tell them and hang up.

2

freehombre t1_j6ncz64 wrote

I like the idea in theory but it makes that call really quick. This winter, while skiing, I have had this almost make the call to 911 three times. I would wipeout and then while getting shit back together I phone would start saying; “you have 10 seconds to respond or I will call 911.” The issue is I have my phone under so many layers with gloves on, etc. I can see this happening

4

iancarry t1_j6ndek1 wrote

oh... it doesnt work for 6S :(

1

air_lock t1_j6neu7q wrote

Who is responsible for any fees or conveniences of any kind related to false 911 calls (in the US) when this happens? Apple or the user of the device?

1

Accomplished_Way_118 t1_j6nfbf1 wrote

I’d rather this than them removing this feature that could save one of my family members life

2

pfc9769 t1_j6nfz8y wrote

I had accidental lock screen 921 call once. I panicked and hung up. They immediately called me back and I explained what happened. The dispatcher then asked If I was under distress and answering truthfully. It threw me off and there was a long dramatic pause. She asked me if I’m sure and I repeated yes and the dispatcher sent out a cop to check up anyway. I felt bad for wasting their time, but it was good of the dispatcher to even think to ask that.

3

who_you_are t1_j6njvho wrote

Meanwhile, my Android phone power start spamming itself which also lock my screen no stop which make it impossible to cancel the call

2

ProbablyGayingOnYou t1_j6nl4wr wrote

This seems like one of those features where it's probably intentionally designed to err on the side of false positives rather than false negatives. Although as other commenters have noted, then you have to contend with the "boy who cried wolf" effect of those detections being ignored.

2

EsotericAbstractIdea t1_j6opywx wrote

I'd be ok with it if it didn't also text me a lie when it did a false call for my mom.

"CRASH DETECTED SOS

Your Mom called emergency services from this approximate location after iPhone detected a crash."

​

No... the iPhone called 911 on its own after it fell on the ground. I sped across town because of that.

1

Confident-alien-7291 t1_j6ox4d8 wrote

I prefer a 100 mistaken calls then 1 where the feature didn’t work, im not an Apple fanboy but I absolutely appreciate this feature and I’m sure if I ever get into an accident I’ll be forever thankful that it worked

4

ConciselyVerbose t1_j6p3jlu wrote

Let’s say, hypothetically, that it was as bad as 50% false calls, 50% calls that wouldn’t have been made, and that every false call is missing a real call. That’s break even. That means 1 person loses access to emergency services and 1 person gains.

Any better than that and you’re helping more people than you hurt. Obviously the ideal is perfection, and not having any false calls, especially ones that take resources from real people. But it doesn’t take amazing accuracy to improve the net outcome.

If you get data that they’re more likely to be incorrect than a normal call, you can change your prioritization to prioritize a human speaking. Apple can continue to improve their accuracy to minimize false positives. But those improvements are from a situation that’s already better than it not existing.

1

X0AN t1_j6pjh69 wrote

To be fair your phone does ask if you've been in a crash and makes a lot of noise.

Not particularly hard to tell your phone that's you're ok and not to call the emergency services 😂

3