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COMPUTER1313 OP t1_ityej1y wrote

The big TLDR is that the issue with the adapter is the connector's poor quality construction that leaves it fragile and easily susceptible to being damaged.

Combined with high amperage, the bending of cables and a user not be ultra careful with plugging in the cable, can result in hot spots that heat up enough to start melting the plastic.

The salt to the wound is that PSU manufacturers' 12VHPWR adapters are safer to use because of their more robust construction.

> A good example of a functioning connection are, for example, the two 12VHPWR cables of the new be quiet! Dark Power Pro 13, which I still show here as an example. Because there you don’t have to do the balancing act with the voltage bridges, but spend each pin its own 16AWG line. Sure, 12 thick wires in one cable is not that sexy now either, but it is at least an accurate and clean solution. I also snapped these cables right at the connector several times and did much of my testing for the GeForce RTX 4090 as well as the Intel Core i9-13900K in the lab with them on the redundant test system.

...

> The overall build quality of the included adapter for the GeForce RTX 4090, which is distributed by NVIDIA itself, is extremely poor and the internal construction should never have been approved like this. NVIDIA has to take its own supplier to task here, and replacing the adapters in circulation would actually be the least they could do. I will therefore summarize once again what has struck those involved (myself included) so far:

> - The problem is not the 12VHPWR connection as such, nor the repeated plugging or unplugging.

> - Standard compliant power supply cables from brand manufacturers are NOT affected by this so far.

> - The current trigger is NVIDIA’s own adapter to 4x 8-pin in the accessories, whose inferior quality can lead to failures and has already caused damage in single cases.

> - Splitting each of the four 14AWG leads onto each of the 6 pins in the 12VHPWR connector of the adapter by soldering them onto bridges that are much too thin is dangerous because the ends of the leads can break off at the solder joint (e.g., when kinked or bent several times).

> - Bending or kinking the wires directly at the connector of the adapter puts too much pressure on the solder joints and bridges, so that they can break off.

> - The inner bridge between the pins is too thin (resulting cross section) to compensate the current flow on two or three instead of four connected 12V lines.

> - NVIDIA has already been informed in advance and the data and pictures were also provided by be quiet! directly to the R&D department.

> Actually, I wanted to do something completely different today, but this correction was more important to me. Blanket panic and gloating are really bad advisors here when it comes to introducing new standards. That AMD has not (yet) joined the plug change was shown in my news about one of the upcoming board partners. But if you, like NVIDIA, take such a radical step, then at least the included accessories should work properly over after a little bending and ensure a safe, stable operation of the graphics cards.

141

mrgreyeyes t1_ityhm9j wrote

Why do they want your hose to burn down? The power supply connector part should be just simple electronics. With that much power draw you need to design it safely.

The 50xx cards should better be equipped with something like this.

70

Drewafx t1_ityjld9 wrote

soldering looks like it was done manually

if it's not custom cable, isn't it cheaper and better with automatic machine...

well first iteration so maybe there wasn't one by the deadline who knows

30

Dbz-Styles t1_itz2t6x wrote

Why isn't someone doing a 90° adapter for it?

16

wheenus t1_itz60gt wrote

Doing things cheap and ineffective shouldn't be new, fortunately it just means your house will have to take a hit

1

Lachimanus t1_itz7x3c wrote

Yay, pay some 2000 bucks on a GPU but get cheap cables. That is the way to go, NVidia.

30

frenz9 t1_itzbd7o wrote

Silly question. Why was the power connection done on the side if you can’t reasonably bend the cord?

13

lswins t1_itzbfb9 wrote

Sounds like a class action lawsuit to me.

10

Opetyr t1_itzi125 wrote

Replying to AnimalNo5205 (#257,407)

The cards are way too big. The connector won't fit in a bunch of cases without an extreme bend. It was incompetent to put it there. Even more idiotic is using subpar parts.

14

iknowyounot88 t1_itzncxf wrote

They need to be recalled and sued for knowingly selling faulty products. The greed is beyond proportion for Nvidia. Insane.

6

GlossamJet t1_itzoij8 wrote

Replying to Drewafx (#253,618)

Looks like it was stripped with a pocket knife. I don’t think that is a soldered connection. I have never made one but I’m guessing those wires were supposed to be tinned to be used in that plastic connector which would most definitely be cheaper and faster done automatically, by several orders of magnitude. Though the size of those wires vs the size of those hole don’t look like any amount of solder going to help.

3

workThrowaway459837 t1_itztft4 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#258,896)

> At 450 watts max draw at standard 120V mains power, the supply is only going to be pushing 3.75 Amps through the connector.

The problem was never the C13/C14 connector handling mains power. The power supply feeds 12V DC to the card over the connector we're talking about, for 37.5 amps that that connection handles.

8

zekex944resurrection t1_itzva7l wrote

I’ll probably skip this generation. No use paying money for it to break.

4

emperorsteele t1_iu00ly6 wrote

I kinda hate this article.

"Celebrities on youtube are fear-mongering! There's nothing wrong with the connectors!"

"Except the connectors are cheap and break easily. But that's not nvidia's fault!"

They're doing some whack-ass mental gymnastics there.

−4

IAteMyYeezys t1_iu03l4g wrote

Set your house on fire right now! Starting at only $1599.

1

halobolola t1_iu04ttd wrote

Replying to Lachimanus (#256,193)

It’s like when people buy a monster tv, reject the delivery costs, and come up with some stupid janky way to attach it to their car for the journey home.

Stupid.

19

Shawn_NYC t1_iu06j4c wrote

Is there any way Nvidia doesn't have to do a massive recall? Seems like a house fire and massive lawsuit just waiting to happen.

2

galacticwonderer t1_iu0ea4q wrote

Replying to COMPUTER1313 (#253,112)

Amazing to make such a high end product and to imagine all the man hours spent in design and construction just to skimp out on the thing that powers it. NVIDIA really has its head up its own arse. Way up there.

101

oo_Mxg t1_iu0gky1 wrote

What a shitshow of a company lmao

1

COMPUTER1313 OP t1_iu0il2z wrote

Replying to emperorsteele (#260,288)

> "Except the connectors are cheap and break easily. But that's not nvidia's fault!"

Except if you read the article or looked for my TLDR comment, you would see that the whole cable melting drama is purely due to Nvidia's poor connector design or they had accepted low quality cables from a manufacturer. Meanwhile PSU manufacturers' and other 3rd party cables don't have the same problem.

2

COMPUTER1313 OP t1_iu0mbzo wrote

Replying to Rogermcfarley (#258,243)

That connector design is the kind of stuff you would find in USB cables that are not compliant with even USB 1.1 specs so they either don't work, or could set your phone on fire.

Or no-brand "500W" PSUs that cost $20.

6

Lachimanus t1_iu0myuk wrote

Replying to halobolola (#260,820)

Or people buying a $5 case for their $1500 phone.

I paid 1400€ for my bicycle and carry two 100€ locks with it to bring it into the opposite extreme of perspective. But I never fear to get my bike stolen.

6

bbpsword t1_iu0s326 wrote

Replying to Opetyr (#257,714)

That's what's so mind blowing about this. One fucking look at this card in a case and I feel like 90% of competent PC builders would be like "this should be angled or a 90 degree adapter".

This isn't rocket science, unlike actual GPU design, which is arguably more complicated and difficult.

5

lionhart280 t1_iu0s9r0 wrote

Replying to emperorsteele (#260,288)

You didnt really read then.

The article is effectively stating that the 12VHPWR connector standard is perfectly fine and plenty robust to handle its job, in general, and that people are fearmongering over the connecter standard being bad, when it is very much plenty fine.

NVIDIA however produced an extremely cheap and shitty adapter for it they shipped with their cards, and its the adapter that is failing, because they made it very cheaply and didnt not comply to 12VHPWR standards.

It is 100% NVIDIA's fault though, Im not sure what makes you think the article said anything opposite of that.

5

320Hockey t1_iu0wz05 wrote

Replying to galacticwonderer (#262,114)

Calling Chevrolets 15 cent ignition spring that caused ignition interlock on the first gen Cobalts.

They saved 10 cent per spring from the factory…guess how much the recall costed the company, along with the PR nightmare is created.

33

ericstern t1_iu195yr wrote

Nvidia think the key to increased sales present and future is by burning down its customers houses.

Not sure what the logic here is, maybe they invested heavily in construction companies and property development for all those sweet open plots of land that their gas cards will generate?

3

emperorsteele t1_iu19hdr wrote

Replying to lionhart280 (#264,133)

I'll be honest, I read it twice, because I thought I was missing something, but I still didn't understand why the article flip-flopped between the plug not having an issue, and the plug being broken.

It's either broken or isn't.

But since you pointed out the difference between standard and adapter, that makes a bit more sense. Thanks!

2

Tom_Neverwinter t1_iu1d3pm wrote

Nvidia downgraded to a worse connector.. Like is this gross negligence?

1

akuma211 t1_iu1du08 wrote

Replying to COMPUTER1313 (#253,112)

You know, I would really hope that the big issue is just poor quality connectors, getting an aftermarket quality plug would give a lot of people peace of mind, not that they shouldn't still be cautious since we are still the guinea pigs on the new standard

5

BadKarmaSimulator t1_iu1dvlg wrote

Replying to viodox0259 (#256,682)

Yeah, it seems weird to start the article off "Even if certain YouTube celebrities are of a different opinion because they seem to have found a willing object of hate in the 12VHPWR once again" in regards to a legit fire hazard in people's homes. People are acting like that Jay dude is fearmongering while shit is literally burning.

3

subrosians t1_iu1e2bm wrote

Replying to COMPUTER1313 (#262,565)

Back when I worked in retail in the mid 2000s, if someone wanted to take home a TV without delivery, we opened the box in front of the customer, turned on the TV and confirmed it wasn't broken, boxed it back up, and had a form that they had to sign saying that there would be no returns on the TV, and recommendations on how to transport it and carry them. This was back during the early days of plasmas and laying them down had a significant chance of them breaking.

15

hoehater t1_iu1eji3 wrote

I haven’t seen anything melt that bad since Dell sent the school I was working at dozens of computers with Pentiums that were overclocked right about the time Windows 95 was being released.

The overclocking and inadequate cooling combined with the original Pentiums lack of proper thermal safety features cause the chips to get so hot that they MELTED the solder on the board.

Needless to say, we sent them back and order PowerPC based Macs instead.

4

anonnon23 t1_iu1r8b6 wrote

How much are they charging for these? and they still cheap out on materials? lol

1

Shaunvfx t1_iu27t27 wrote

Replying to CableMod_Alex (#257,474)

Do you expect to be able to handle the initial demand? And any ideas on ship times after the order is placed?

Admittedly have a 4090 with a little pressure from my case door, not messing with it until I have a suitable replacement or adapter.

1

HaileStorm42 t1_iu29lm2 wrote

Replying to Lachimanus (#263,386)

I used to work with Cell phones. Back when the iPhone 4 (or maybe the 4s?) came out, with both the glass front, and glass back, we had a lady who refused to buy anything for it.

No Case.

No Screen Protector.

No Insurance.

We emphasized many times that because the phone is glass on both the front and back, it was very fragile, easily cracked, and must be protected/taken care of. She wasn't having any of that.

She walked out with her shiny new phone... and immediately dropped it on the concrete sidewalk outside the shop.

And somehow had the absolute balls to come back in and demand we "Do the right thing" and replace her now smashed phone.

We didn't.

8

foxrun89 t1_iu2eqyp wrote

How many confirmed cases are we up to now? Mine is still rocking strong.

1

COMPUTER1313 OP t1_iu2hwql wrote

Replying to 320Hockey (#264,864)

Or Ford's Pinto moment.

Or when Takata decided it would be a REALLY GOOD IDEA to ship claymore airbags and defective seat belts to car manufacturers around the world, guaranteeing that when the scandal breaks, they would be sued both by consumers and the car manufacturers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation

> During 2013, several automakers began large recalls of vehicles due to Takata-made airbags. Reports state that the problems may have begun a decade before,[11] with the faulty airbags placed in some Honda models starting in 1998.[12]

...

> On January 4, 2019, Ford issued a recall for an additional 953,000 vehicles, including 782,384 in the United States and federalized territories and 149,652 in Canada. Affected vehicles included 2010 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX, the 2010 and 2011 Ford Ranger, the 2010 to 2012 Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ, the 2010 and 2011 Mercury Milan, and the 2010 to 2014 Ford Mustang. This was a planned expansion of previously recalled vehicles as identified earlier by the NHTSA.[42]

...

> In June 2021, Joyson announced that they had discovered over a thousand cases where Takata had falsified seat belt safety test data.[43]

9

rroberts3439 t1_iu2myb8 wrote

At this point no one should use that cable. It sucks but it looks like the Corsair cable and the ones being made by CableMods are the way to go. I'm waiting for the 4080 and if it uses a similar cable, I'll get that 90 degree cable from cable mod. Will look nicer anyways.

2

Corundrom t1_iu2tfye wrote

Replying to Lachimanus (#263,386)

I mean, that's not really the best analogy, as I can guarantee those 100€ locks are completely useless at actually stopping someone seriously trying to steal the bike, and a cheaper lock would be exactly as effective (excepting some seriously bad locks that can be opened by tapping them on something metal)

2

agentages t1_iu2tkkt wrote

Replying to OTHERPPLSMAGE (#275,053)

Boom boom usually has a burny burny component included. Anything not boomed away gets burned, most of the boomed starts the burn.

Explosions tend to make lots of chemicals in the process and sometimes they are not always stable at room temperature. Explosions release a lot of energy and some of that is thermal so if something is flammable enough - it's gonna burny burny. Got a can of PAM that's going to rupture from the pressure? Fire. Gas lines? More fire. Refrigerator? Fire. Hairspray? Synthetic curtains? Clothes? Burny burny. After boom boom.

3

agentages t1_iu2u9gg wrote

Replying to Hydraulic_IT_Guy (#273,514)

1600 better come with gold plated connectors and a BJ while I insert it in the case, I'm going to need even more for the 2k model.

I'm guessing we're definitely not getting what we pay for this generation.

2

OTHERPPLSMAGE t1_iu2vevj wrote

Replying to agentages (#275,485)

To be honest. I get that. My comment was a year one reference. Not im a dense fool but preciate ya dumbing it down. My father was a great teacher on what boom boom shit does. He was a combat engineer for US army for 22+ years. 🤣

2

agentages t1_iu2ybkt wrote

Replying to OTHERPPLSMAGE (#275,786)

Thems the ones that know how to Boom properly!

Didn't want some dense person reading your comment and trying to think they could small boom safely in their house, I wonder how many homes burn down because a kid thought he was an pyrotechnics expert.

2

erix84 t1_iu30ssb wrote

Replying to rroberts3439 (#274,398)

I don't understand how Nvidia charges so much for their video cards and include cheap fugly cables. It didn't used to be a problem when you just ran the cables from your power supply because generally those are sleeved and look decent, but the adapters they've been doing since the 3000 series are a joke.

2

Lachimanus t1_iu322hc wrote

Replying to Corundrom (#275,469)

These locks are some the lock picking lawyer took almost a minute at in perfect condition with specialized tools, not a terrible position crouched in with cheap tools.

Standard tools to break them apart completely fail while a cheaper lock can just be cut open with a $5 saw. You need at least an angle grinder to cut through them, which is rather easily I admit. But at the spots I usually lock them the chance is high that they could rather cut themselves while working on the lock.

And last but not least, 100% of the time there are much easier targets and often more expensive than my bike right next to mine.

3

Yessswaitwhat t1_iu3506a wrote

Replying to OTHERPPLSMAGE (#275,053)

C4 is actually very stable, you could shoot it, smash it, and use it as a fire starter and scatter burning bricks all over without any of them actually going boom. Now hit it with a high electric current or use some det cord and that's another story.

1

Lachimanus t1_iu3cq1s wrote

Replying to danielsaid (#277,704)

It is the sturdiest Abus foldable and Kryptonite Evolution. Hiplok would also be on my list of possible locks, but I do not like U-locks so much.

And as you said: if the attacker is dedicated enough, they will break it for sure.

But as I am working on implementing cryptography algorithms: every system can be broken, but the question is the trade-off between cost/time and gain. And my bike has definitely a really bad ratio compared to the bike with a thin string as lock, not connected to some solid object, right next to mine.

2

kdavis37 t1_iu49tao wrote

Replying to CalvinHJPK (#281,261)

That's utterly irrelevant. Nvidia released a spec. This breaks that spec in multiple ways. You don't go through the effort and cost of finding your minimums and then go under them.

1

iDuddits_ t1_iu57lnv wrote

Ignoring the shitty make, seems wild to me to port four lines going from the psu into one on the card.

1