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paulerxx t1_ir1e8u5 wrote

Hoping it's up state NY and not NYC.

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inferno006 t1_ir3i13t wrote

They keep saying “Upstate” but I really had to dig to find exactly where they are talking about. Onondaga County, outside Syracuse. Everyone in NYC thinks the rest of NY is Upstate. Syracuse is Central NY to those of us from Western NY, aka Buffalo.

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freightgod1 t1_ir4tbqd wrote

Cries in North Country.

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natethegreek t1_ir4x85b wrote

Went to high school in Champlain NY, I always laughed when people said "like Albany". Try 2 hours north!

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inferno006 t1_ir566u0 wrote

Went on a cruise this summer. Ended up sitting with a very nice couple from the Bronx at dinner each night. Get talking, exchanging where we are from and what not. The lady says “Oh Buffalo? I own property in Albany so that’s right there, right?” This statement was based solely on what she sees on thruway signs.

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Adventurous_Ad4950 t1_ir6d069 wrote

Many people in NYC forget there’s more state than just the heaping island of concrete, lol.

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azuser55 t1_ir3qa93 wrote

Too many vibrations in NYC to build a fab there

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oandakid718 t1_ir4fyjo wrote

Is this actually a thing? Interesting

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azuser55 t1_ir6ms5c wrote

Recently there was some work being done to upgrade a FAB. There is a neighboring fab across the street. To avoid disrupting their neighbors, the work had to be spec’d without heavy equipment, jackhammers, or large ground moving equipment. When you are dealing with nanometers of precision, even the smallest bump can ruin a batch of multi-million dollar wafers being run through lithography.

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emelrad12 t1_ir7goka wrote

That seems like asking for trouble. Like what about cars?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irb7v15 wrote

There's an orders-of-magnitude difference between the amplitudes of ground vibrations produced by cars and by jackhammers. Vibration isolation systems designed to handle normal traffic etc. would be overwhelmed by heavy construction equipment.

And when you say "asking for trouble," what do you see as the alternative? Space manufacturing isn't even close to being viable, so either we don't do nanometer-precise manufacturing at all, or we do it somewhere on Earth, and the latter means dealing with the possibility of ground vibration. (Or water motion, which is even harder to isolate.)

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emelrad12 t1_irb9yy4 wrote

Isnt wind even worse?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbf072 wrote

It's much easier to isolate the contents of a low-rise building from wind than from the ground. The internal structure of the building can be made self-supporting, with the walls basically just 'floating' around it.

You can't really 'float' a floor over the ground - you have to transmit the force of gravity from the contents of the building to the ground, and any connection capable of transmitting force will also conduct vibration. There are all kinds of complicated engineering solutions for reducing the amount that's conducted, but they take up space and cost money, so it's usually more efficient to choose a 'quieter' site than to build a better isolation system.

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emelrad12 t1_irbgxb9 wrote

Could they just use something similar to noise cancellation, like in headphones?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbkmal wrote

Active vibration cancellation is already in use in semiconductor fabs and other sensitive manufacturing applications. But it has technical limitations: just like active noise cancellation, it works better for lower frequencies, lower amplitudes, and smoother waveforms. So it's sort of the final layer of protection: first you choose a quiet site, then you construct the building and the equipment footings using passive solutions that dissipate as much vibration as possible and smooth out the jerks, and then you use active solutions on the equipment itself.

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Adventurous_Ad4950 t1_ir6dupc wrote

It depends on where, the eastern part of Brooklyn has some small chip manufacturers sitting there (my friend works for a gov. contracted manufacturing facility there). I doubt a large scale operation like Micron’s would fit there without causing substantial community displacement though.

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azuser55 t1_ir6lw2v wrote

I didn’t know that. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me.

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RagerTheSailor t1_ir30v82 wrote

That money would give them a 100 year old abandoned warehouse alongside the Hudson in NYC.

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aDragonsAle t1_ir4iota wrote

This is a good and needed thing to help long term autonomy... But it does make me worry for Taiwan.

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbafvn wrote

It's very unlikely that US domestic investment will catch up to, or even keep pace with, global growth in demand for semiconductors. The entire world will continue to have a major stake in Taiwan's stability for the foreseeable future.

(The specific Western national-security interest in Taiwanese independence and liberal democracy may be weakened, which could be a long-term problem. But there won't be any impact on the West's willingness to defend Taiwan from a military invasion, armed coup, or other destabilizing attack.)

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freightgod1 t1_ir4th8z wrote

10 years before what Taiwan does can be replaced.

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aDragonsAle t1_ir52sls wrote

Not sure about your timeline, or the meaning behind your phrasing - but if China pulls a China (HK) or Russia (Ukraine) against Taiwan - the COVID/cryptomine chip shortage will have been a warm up...

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